Let's talk Ohio HS XC

I do think that Hil Davidson’s 3rd guy can close the gap on their #2. Davidson’s #2 ran a 9:57 3200. Davidson’s 3 ran a 9:45

I fully understand and appreciate your perspective on the importance of the spread and that a tight 3-5 is more important, overall. Where it is going to make a bigger difference is in a larger and more competitive field, ie, the state meet.

Speaking of the state meet, and talking about individual titles, is anyone going to challenge Ackley and Clute for the D1 individual titles?

Mas. Jackson was super impressive this weekend. They are my #1 right now. You don't know what Mason has until you see it. We should see them against Springboro at the Mason Invite. Some out of state teams too.

I'm not sure HD ran all their guys at pre-state. That might be your explanation to how they leap-frogged Springboro in 2 weeks.

I thought we would see St. X as well at the Hot Summer Bash, they usually run there.

Brody has run in the 9:30s indoors.

Tommy Rice. Already a state champ (3200)

The thing about Mas Jackson is that they have no seniors this year.

I still think mason will win state this year because of their depth and the fact that they return 5 sub-16 guys, and maybe go to NXN unless Center Grove gets everyone healthy and puts all pieces together at NXR (Carmel is easily #1 in Midwest until proven otherwise). But next year Mas Jackson should win state unless mason finds some people that will help reload

Last year Davidson had 2 low sticks and finished 3rd at the state meet. I agree 1-5 spread is overrated, it comes down to where your 4-5 are relative to everyone else's. Ackley can win by 30 seconds and it's only 1 team point, but if their 5 finishes 30 seconds behind everyone else's 5 that could be 25 points or more. Right now I think Springboro would make up enough ground at the 3-5 spots to negate Davidson's 1-2.

Also, Davidson beat springboro by only 1 point. If Davidson’s 5th finished 1 spot behind their 4, and Springboro’s 5th finished 1 spot behind their 4, springboro would have had 89 points and Davidson would have had 91.

I agree with your premise that both are needed to be a factor in the top handful of teams. As you suggest, there can be a lot of points just in front of someone's 4-5. And there can also be a lot of points in front of your whole squad if #1 is only in the 20-30s. That is another reason why teams appear so different depending upon the quality, depth, and size of the meet.

I can tell you understand this as well. In fact, pretty much all of the posters on this thread seem to get it.

As far as Springboro, HD, Lancaster, Coffman, M-Jackson, Mason, etc. right now, I have not looked at things close enough to give an educated observation. I will wait for them all to sort things out during the season. Until then I rely on you and the other posters to educate me.

Westerville North and Worthington Kilbourne would like to enter the chat for next year.

Kilbourne has a better 1-2 than Jackson. Smith is a top-10 guy right now (narrowly losing to Ricchuitti at Pickerington), and Miller thumped both Ilg and Zuckett at state (29th) and then NXR (1st in 9/10) last fall. He typically starts slow and then comes on very strong in October. Their #3, Hawkins (16:19 at PickN), is also better than Jacksons #3. If their 4-5 (young) can develop, they definitely can beat Jackson. These two middle schools went 1-2 a few years back at OHSAA MS Invite, by the way.

However... Westerville North may be better than both of these teams next year. Gabelman is a 4:12 guy as a soph and has a legit chance to break Kennedy's WN 1600 record. He's a XC individual title threat in 2023. They're a top 10 team currently, and only lose Bracken next year. They are stacked with 16:30-17:00 guys (Mazak, Dellasanta, Carlos, Kerns, etc) who are young - mostly sophs - and hungry.

St. X was there. They rean their 3rd or 4th team.

They're going to Mason & the Tiffin Carnival this upcoming Saturday. Those will probably not be their top teams either. The top team should run together on the 17th at the Trinity Invite in Louisville.

It must be nice for the coaches to have so many runners. It's not always so great for the number 5 through 15 guys but coaches are a bit less stressed by the possibility of an injury. Mason coaches have the same luxury. I guess it always keeps the guys on their toes.

Ackley beat Rice by 36 seconds at the state meet last year. Also, Ackley did not run the 3200 at the state track meet.

Don't forget about Toledo St. Francis and Medina. I don't think there's a lot separating the #2-10 teams this year.

No mention of Loveland or Solon? Both beat hd at the first meet

Thanks for including them. I just threw out some names off the top of my head. I did not mean to sleight TSF, Medina, or anyone else. And as I said, I know far less than the other posters on this thread.

True.... but Tommy did beat Ackley at NXR, finishing 4th in the Champs race. He'll be there in November.

I took a stab at ranking the top 10, honestly I don't think there's much separating the teams behind Mason:

1. Mason

2. Tol. St. Francis

3. Medina

4. Mas. Jackson

5. Lancaster

6. Springboro

7. St. Xavier

8. Loveland

9. Solon

10. Hil. Davidson

Tiffin is a long trip for a B team. I’d imagine the A guys are going up there.

Pretty solid list, but Central OH is getting snubbed a bit - though I'm probably biased. Lancaster may be a little high at this point, as we just don't know how high their front runners will be. The Lanoys were behind the two Centerville kids at Northmont, and those guys were only 29th and 52nd at the OHSAA meet. Does Lancaster have the front runners to be in the top 5? I'm not sure yet. They definitely have the depth.

That said, I think Dublin Coffman and Westerville North have an argument for top 10. We'll see as the year progresses.