The chemistry on BTC has really eroded in recent years. It went from a team of young, fun fresh faced runners that genuinely liked each other to a collection of marrieds, singles, low key personalities, and a group that doesn't seem to have any real team spirit. A bunch of hired guns that train with each other and that's about it.
What changed?
Pressure - with the demise of NOP, all eyes looked to BTC as the saviors of American distance fortunes. Big turnover in recent years has made the athletes who are not medalists, NR holders, and Olympians increasingly nervous. Nike demanding more and more social media engagement.
The loyalty to me seems indicative of Shelby's innocence. And you can't say they're all just covering for her because they all get tested constantly too. Grant Fisher even talked about clean athletes on the podcast. I think GDS just got sick of other people questioning her and the team because of Shelby, and she never had a connection to Shelby or the rest of the team so it wasn't worth it. Plus she doesn't have much in common with the rest of the team it seems.
In her instagram post she said that the situation with Shelby was an incredible distraction--maybe she got tired of being forced to consistently put out manufactured PR versions of Shelby's innocence, the team's "clean sport" position etc (as you point out other members of the team have to do here) rather than focusing on training, racing and getting better. I'd imagine that there is constant "PR Training" on what to say and how to "protect" the team image and project the right story, which does seem exhausting: especially if internally maybe you question the person's story in the first place. Actually, I'd leave too. Why borrow trouble. Also, side note, the idea of Shalane "coaching/" "mothering" me as an athlete is wholly gross to me.
Understood and obvious. That doesn’t change the fact that American coaches are helping runners from other countries to beat Americans. They are prioritizing affiliation with a private running company over allegiance to their country. They are choosing dollars over patriotism. Sad.
Who the f cares? Why should anyone care about a country when it comes to bettering their career? That’s insane. I hope you work for an American owned company. If you don’t, you better quit asap even if it means taking a pay cut
I care because I’m an American who wants to see American runners do well. So many people here complain if American runners fail to medal, yet look the other way when American coaches help our competitors? Makes no sense. Yes I work for an American company. Go USA!
This is lame. Straight up virtue signaling mentioning this as a reason for leaving after this much time has passed. Not shocked given GDS need for attention. These people are narcissists.
The chemistry on BTC has really eroded in recent years. It went from a team of young, fun fresh faced runners that genuinely liked each other to a collection of marrieds, singles, low key personalities, and a group that doesn't seem to have any real team spirit. A bunch of hired guns that train with each other and that's about it.
What changed?
Pressure - with the demise of NOP, all eyes looked to BTC as the saviors of American distance fortunes. Big turnover in recent years has made the athletes who are not medalists, NR holders, and Olympians increasingly nervous. Nike demanding more and more social media engagement.
Corporate Culture - Nike is increasingly becoming just another soulless corporate entity. The old guard track nuts are mostly retired or marginalized by the tech industry guys running the place. No one inside really cares and I wouldn't be surprised if Schumacher and the sports marketing people are under the constant scrutiny of. "How does this this make us money, again?" from the new leadership.
BurritoGate - the sheen is off of the program because of how this was handled.
Loyalty to Shelby - this is the really weird thing. They haven't cut her off, they still seem to be coaching her and allowing access to resources, they let her store her VW van on a WHQ parking lot, etc.
Coach Shalane - when she became a coach, something changed in the team dynamic. Rumors are that many younger women didn't appreciate being "mothered" by Flanagan.
Inside/Outside Circles - the team has become very cliquey. Old vs. New, Stanford Alum circle, Marrieds vs. Singles, the whole Shelby vs. Squigs rivalry.
Personalities - There are just a lot of boring athletes on the team now. Work hard and go home for the evening just like an office job. It is not the happy and fun loving collegiate team atmosphere that it once enjoyed.
Too Many Experiments/Favors - Centro, Gwen, Keiran, Radcliffe. Did/Do these athletes enhance the team experience or take away from it?
Strange times in Beaverton, indeed. I am not surprised that GDS walked away. With Houlihan out plus Quigley and Johnson gone, all the attention has shifted away from the middle distances. It's a mostly 5/10 focused club now. I suspect that Lucia will depart for Victoria soon as well.
In your analysis, you overlook the fact that many of their runners are thriving: Ahmed, Fisher, Frerichs, Cranny, Schweizer, et al. How can these runners be doing so well if there are so many issues with the team?
This is lame. Straight up virtue signaling mentioning this as a reason for leaving after this much time has passed. Not shocked given GDS need for attention. These people are narcissists.
I’ll also point out BTC is just gross, the wholesome image and “bowerman babes” it’s
Let me be honest, when I first got a text tonight that she was leaving, I texted the person back and said, "Wait, she thinks the whole group is dirty?" But now that I've had time to actually read her instagram post and think about it, I think people may be making too big of a deal of this.
I bet the answer is no.
If she saw something immoral or shady, why in the hell would she have her sister join in November of 2021 as GDS had been there for like a year? Plus wouldn't her sister be leaving as well?
I think people need to remember two things. 1) Debues Stafford suffers from anxiety.
DeBues-Stafford says she has long suffered from general anxiety, and the nearly two-year layoff from racing messed with her mentality heading into the Olympic year.But it’s another thing altogether to get the mind right for competition....
“I definitely have a general pattern of anxiety that, when you’re in a race situation, becomes exacerbated. I’ve struggled with race anxiety, specifically, my whole life, and it definitely got worse after my mom died.”
Sure being asked about Shelby might be annoying but it's not crippling for a Frerichs, Cranny, etc, but it might be for GDS.
2) She's now had 4 different coaches in 4 years. She moves around a lot.
She left her original setup in Canada to move to GB and train with Laura Muir/Andy Young at the end of 2018 or beginning of 2019. Despite setting "no less than 11 PBs and eight national records", she left them for the BTC in 2020. Now she's left the BTC to go back to Canada.
So it will be interesting to see what she says when we interview her but at this point I really think that all of you who think this is a sign she knows Shelby is dirty are mistaken. I bet she just doesn't like having to train under a bit of a grey cloud.
Seems like you’re moving the conversation to more comfortable ground. She doesn’t have to have personal knowledge of SH doping or to think that everyone is doping. On its face, she is open about her anxiety, which is commendable, and she simply notes that the coaches’ response to the ban and their handling and continued coaching of a banned athlete triggered her anxiety. It’s a legitimate criticism and my sense is that LRC would be critical of any different coaches doing the same thing.
Again there is always a backstory, always some grasping explanation why such and such athlete could not run close to a world or even national class time all through college, joins a pro team and presto is running 14:25. It was not their focus. Or they only ran low mileage. Or they were injured. Etc. We are not stupid.
To be competive in professional and international distance running you need to rely on chemistry. Those are the facts of life. I treat pro running like cycling, accept that the sport is forever compromised by doping, and assume that all of the top pro runners are doping. But lets at least stop deluding ourselves that when a runner suddenly starts running times never suggested anywhere in their competive history as a distance runner, and better still after college, that it is clean. It isn't. I mean, please. You would have to be a masochistic idiot to try to compete as a pro distance runner without PEDs.
This is lame. Straight up virtue signaling mentioning this as a reason for leaving after this much time has passed. Not shocked given GDS need for attention. These people are narcissists.
This is lame. Straight up virtue signaling mentioning this as a reason for leaving after this much time has passed. Not shocked given GDS need for attention. These people are narcissists.
What? lol. This is jibberish.
If I was a narcissist and a world class professional runner, I would remain on the campus of my multi-billion dollar corporate sponsor that pampers me and assigns full-time photographers to promote everything I do.
Some people desperately want everything to fit some pre-conceived narrative. Sad stuff.
She got tired of people calling it Burrito Truck Club.
/thread
And people wishing they all died by falling over and smashing their faces.
This post is weird and gross but I think that some things are worth clearing up since people calling out Shelby and BTC are called "haters" and "trolls".
We don't want anyone to "die" or any harm to come to anyone. We are not hoping for that. We are frustrated that Shelby has been treated with kid gloves by the running media and by BTC itself. Here's what I want.
Running media needs to be transparent about why they are choosing to believe Shelby, enable her or why they are not reporting this story the way they would if it were Sifan, a Kenya runner, or someone they don't like, like Galen. If there is actual tangible evidence that she was screwed, then show it in plain text. More likely than not the answer is "I like her", and that's not good enough to get tight lipped on a serious issue like clean sport when you are so forthcoming about cleansport when it's someone you don't like. Fans CARE about clean sport. Seeing running media respond this way frustrates us to no end and we want better reporting around it.
BTC's support of Shelby HAS crossed a line and they were crossing lines from day 1. It's one thing to believe and support your friend through a difficult time but making a mockery of clean sport at the Olympic trials, forcing your competitors to stand beside you in interviews while you waxed poetic about an "injustice" you couldn't articulate when pressed about it was disgusting. They made Shelby's problem everyone's problem. That wasn't fair to the rest of American distance running. Then we find out more--we find out she's still training alongside BTC, that Shalane is probably still writing training programs for Shelby. Shelby is posting times using a stopwatch on her instagram. She's allowed to use Nike facilities. she is asking the running community for money. This is gross, since there doesn't appear to be any injustice that has happened. She tested positive. She gave a ridiculous excuse and was subsequently banned. BTC is now just openly defying rules. They need to pay the price and that comes with their reputation.
There are people who sincerely wish harm on others, and people who do it. Fans demanding better from the media and from pros aren't it. We don't want any harm to come to Shelby. But we do not want a drug cheat to hang around the sport with impunity.
And people wishing they all died by falling over and smashing their faces.
This post is weird and gross but I think that some things are worth clearing up since people calling out Shelby and BTC are called "haters" and "trolls".
We don't want anyone to "die" or any harm to come to anyone. We are not hoping for that. We are frustrated that Shelby has been treated with kid gloves by the running media and by BTC itself. Here's what I want.
Running media needs to be transparent about why they are choosing to believe Shelby, enable her or why they are not reporting this story the way they would if it were Sifan, a Kenya runner, or someone they don't like, like Galen. If there is actual tangible evidence that she was screwed, then show it in plain text. More likely than not the answer is "I like her", and that's not good enough to get tight lipped on a serious issue like clean sport when you are so forthcoming about cleansport when it's someone you don't like. Fans CARE about clean sport. Seeing running media respond this way frustrates us to no end and we want better reporting around it.
BTC's support of Shelby HAS crossed a line and they were crossing lines from day 1. It's one thing to believe and support your friend through a difficult time but making a mockery of clean sport at the Olympic trials, forcing your competitors to stand beside you in interviews while you waxed poetic about an "injustice" you couldn't articulate when pressed about it was disgusting. They made Shelby's problem everyone's problem. That wasn't fair to the rest of American distance running. Then we find out more--we find out she's still training alongside BTC, that Shalane is probably still writing training programs for Shelby. Shelby is posting times using a stopwatch on her instagram. She's allowed to use Nike facilities. she is asking the running community for money. This is gross, since there doesn't appear to be any injustice that has happened. She tested positive. She gave a ridiculous excuse and was subsequently banned. BTC is now just openly defying rules. They need to pay the price and that comes with their reputation.
There are people who sincerely wish harm on others, and people who do it. Fans demanding better from the media and from pros aren't it. We don't want any harm to come to Shelby. But we do not want a drug cheat to hang around the sport with impunity.
Good response. No one wishes any harm. It seems like there has been a choice to avoid tough questions because people know and like the coaches. It’s a double standard.
The chemistry on BTC has really eroded in recent years. It went from a team of young, fun fresh faced runners that genuinely liked each other to a collection of marrieds, singles, low key personalities, and a group that doesn't seem to have any real team spirit. A bunch of hired guns that train with each other and that's about it.
What changed?
Pressure - with the demise of NOP, all eyes looked to BTC as the saviors of American distance fortunes. Big turnover in recent years has made the athletes who are not medalists, NR holders, and Olympians increasingly nervous. Nike demanding more and more social media engagement.
Corporate Culture - Nike is increasingly becoming just another soulless corporate entity. The old guard track nuts are mostly retired or marginalized by the tech industry guys running the place. No one inside really cares and I wouldn't be surprised if Schumacher and the sports marketing people are under the constant scrutiny of. "How does this this make us money, again?" from the new leadership.
BurritoGate - the sheen is off of the program because of how this was handled.
Loyalty to Shelby - this is the really weird thing. They haven't cut her off, they still seem to be coaching her and allowing access to resources, they let her store her VW van on a WHQ parking lot, etc.
Coach Shalane - when she became a coach, something changed in the team dynamic. Rumors are that many younger women didn't appreciate being "mothered" by Flanagan.
Inside/Outside Circles - the team has become very cliquey. Old vs. New, Stanford Alum circle, Marrieds vs. Singles, the whole Shelby vs. Squigs rivalry.
Personalities - There are just a lot of boring athletes on the team now. Work hard and go home for the evening just like an office job. It is not the happy and fun loving collegiate team atmosphere that it once enjoyed.
Too Many Experiments/Favors - Centro, Gwen, Keiran, Radcliffe. Did/Do these athletes enhance the team experience or take away from it?
Strange times in Beaverton, indeed. I am not surprised that GDS walked away. With Houlihan out plus Quigley and Johnson gone, all the attention has shifted away from the middle distances. It's a mostly 5/10 focused club now. I suspect that Lucia will depart for Victoria soon as well.
The loyalty to me seems indicative of Shelby's innocence. And you can't say they're all just covering for her because they all get tested constantly too. Grant Fisher even talked about clean athletes on the podcast. I think GDS just got sick of other people questioning her and the team because of Shelby, and she never had a connection to Shelby or the rest of the team so it wasn't worth it. Plus she doesn't have much in common with the rest of the team it seems.
Shelby’s excuse for her positive test was incredibly laughable and so obviously a lie that I don’t know how anyone ever took it seriously. The fact that her teammates continue to support her in spite of this should indicate to you that they are simply trying to cover their own asses. Consistently passing drug tests is not an indication of innocence because the dopers are always ahead of the testers.
The chemistry on BTC has really eroded in recent years. It went from a team of young, fun fresh faced runners that genuinely liked each other to a collection of marrieds, singles, low key personalities, and a group that doesn't seem to have any real team spirit. A bunch of hired guns that train with each other and that's about it.
What changed?
Pressure - with the demise of NOP, all eyes looked to BTC as the saviors of American distance fortunes. Big turnover in recent years has made the athletes who are not medalists, NR holders, and Olympians increasingly nervous. Nike demanding more and more social media engagement.
Corporate Culture - Nike is increasingly becoming just another soulless corporate entity. The old guard track nuts are mostly retired or marginalized by the tech industry guys running the place. No one inside really cares and I wouldn't be surprised if Schumacher and the sports marketing people are under the constant scrutiny of. "How does this this make us money, again?" from the new leadership.
BurritoGate - the sheen is off of the program because of how this was handled.
Loyalty to Shelby - this is the really weird thing. They haven't cut her off, they still seem to be coaching her and allowing access to resources, they let her store her VW van on a WHQ parking lot, etc.
Coach Shalane - when she became a coach, something changed in the team dynamic. Rumors are that many younger women didn't appreciate being "mothered" by Flanagan.
Inside/Outside Circles - the team has become very cliquey. Old vs. New, Stanford Alum circle, Marrieds vs. Singles, the whole Shelby vs. Squigs rivalry.
Personalities - There are just a lot of boring athletes on the team now. Work hard and go home for the evening just like an office job. It is not the happy and fun loving collegiate team atmosphere that it once enjoyed.
Too Many Experiments/Favors - Centro, Gwen, Keiran, Radcliffe. Did/Do these athletes enhance the team experience or take away from it?
Strange times in Beaverton, indeed. I am not surprised that GDS walked away. With Houlihan out plus Quigley and Johnson gone, all the attention has shifted away from the middle distances. It's a mostly 5/10 focused club now. I suspect that Lucia will depart for Victoria soon as well.
A keen post. Current NCAA distance hotshots should take note.
Wouldn't shock me if Nike was planning an ORPJT reboot--NOP 2.0--a re-imagined update of the original w/ B Corp values and a short list of potential coaches: Henes, Raczko, Ritz, Taylor.
One other thought, and it has been brought up a bit.
I Can really only speculate on GDS thoughts on the matter, but when I imagine the situation, "distracting" and "exhausting" do come to mind as appropriate adjectives as well as "confusing."
I feel like..pros are at a team for the explicit purpose of getting as good as they can, and yeah that's a selfish and very privileged pursuit, but that's also so great. Good on them, and way to know your purpose so clearly bc a lot of us don't.
If all the sudden the purpose shifts to focusing on someone else, and their "pursuit of justice" and it's a constant hum in the background, it's not something you initially agreed to and your goals have a limited amount of time to achieve..then yeah! Why waste time on a purpose you didn't really sign up for in the first place?
That's not selfish. It's self awareness, self preservation and self respect.
On the women’s side of the group, there’s been something off:
Shelby positive test
Infeld leaves after being unhappy with Jerry’s unwillingness to adjust to her injury cycle, before that goes rogue and races more listening to her body
Marielle Hall also leaves citing some similar frustrations
Quigley same thing, and she clearly had a falling-out with Shelby
Sinclair Johnson lasts a year or so also unhappy with Jerry’s rigidity
Gwen Jorgensen leaves though more just never clicked
Kate Grace who seems to imply that Jerry’s system isn’t for everyone when asked about it
Some of this is the nature of the sport, but I’d look at Jerry almost like Jim Harbaugh in football. Probably best for having an athlete for 4 years or so. There’re exceptions, but at some point he wears the athlete down and I’m not sure he’s equipped to bring injured athletes back.
After nearly a decade of USADA and CAS proceedings, I highly doubt that Ritz wants or expects to be anywhere near Beaverton ever again.
He’s got a great setup at OAC — as close as it gets to a blank cheque, a sponsor willing to pay for top talent, and real influence over product development.
That’s an unfair example. Houlihan didn’t focus on the 5000 in college. Her focus was on the 800 and 1500 (her Twitter handle is still shelbo800). If you want to use her improvement as the basis of your suspicion, the only fair event to analyze is her times in the 1500.
15 seconds (!) over 1500 after age 22, breakthrough in her 3rd year with BTC:
Houlihan, born February 1993, 1500 and 5000 m progression 2013 4:13.64 16:15.85 age 20 2014 4:10.89 16:11.63 age 21 2015 4:09.62 15:49.72 age 22, moved to BTC 2016 4:03.39 15:06.14 age 23 2017 4:06.22 15:00.37 age 24 2018 3:57.34 14:34.45 age 25 5000 m American Record 2019 3:54.99 15:15.50 age 26 1500 m American Record 2020 4:02.37 14:23.92 age 27 5000 m American Record, popped for roids (and banned from January 2021 - 2025)