This is a weird debate but sure I’ll join in on who the better recruit is. Cooke was injury prone all through high school & relied heavily on cross training for fitness & (let’s face it) low body weight. It was hard for her to put a whole season together let alone a year. I agree that her running form is part of the problem plus other factors that she might be trying to correct right now. If she’s experiencing REDS then I wonder for how long. Her parents were competitive runners & one would think they’d have gotten on top of it early if they thought it was an issue. touhy had injury hiccups but never any fractures that I’m aware of. She was always big on gym work, even in high school, & has always looked strong & healthy to me. it’s really a no brainer
I don't know Cook or her parents but they are from my neck of the woods and it was clear from Cook's freshman year when she finished behind Brynn Brown in the 5k at the Texas distance festival that she had a lot of talent.
She never realized that talent until her senior year as, from some milesplit videos, when she gets over 40 miles/wk she gets hurt. Not only that, but it seems every race she has a not insignificant chance of getting an injury.
Senior year, she cut down the miles to under 20 (and those 20 can't even be fast workouts--too fragile) and hit the elliptical. Looks like that works for her, but she's never going to 'fix' her running form on the elliptical and looks like it's still a dice roll every race whether she is going to come out of it without an injury.
Weight wise, she lost quite a bit of weight between Jr and Sr year. Whether that makes her even more injury prone we'll see, but the injury problems definitely were not originally caused by an eating disorder.
Cook is 19 and Tuohy is 21. Tuohy is in her prime and nowhere near world class while Cook ran the fastest U20 time in history. She is faster than Tuohy.
Tuohy was ready to go pro out of HS. Her choice was to get an education and have a chance to be part of a good college team. She knew she needed a break to get her knee surgically corrected. I’m sure that was part of the discussion with NC State. She liked what she heard and State, though a step short of Ivy League/Stanford, was a good fit with a team that was a step away from being the number one XC program, which she loved. She saw herself as the final step to help State achieve the top rung.
I went to a D3 undergraduate program on par with the Stanford/Ivy League academic level. I knew that this wasn’t the place to go to become a professional athlete while it opened other doors professionally. I still found an outlet, athletically, by starting a club soccer team that I player/coached and won the school championship.
Cook probably didn’t have the option to go pro out of HS and wasn’t as aggressively recruited as Tuohy. She found a program where she could contribute immediately and made a big impact her freshman year at OSU. They must have known her issues with injury and the probable impact her form had on this. Tuohy, conversely, had a superior form which helped her stay healthy despite her knee problems. Both valued cross training as does Valby. Tuohy has the advantage insofar as her work ethic, form, attitude and talent are a unique combination that can spell career longevity. Let’s hope her future is bright internationally, and see what the next 12 months has in store.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
No. She had no real offer to go pro. $10K and some shoes is not much of a living. She is no Mu. Come on already. She still isn't close to world class. 15:00 puts her 200 meters behind the best runners.
Cook is 19 and Tuohy is 21. Tuohy is in her prime and nowhere near world class while Cook ran the fastest U20 time in history. She is faster than Tuohy.
Tuohy was ready to go pro out of HS. Her choice was to get an education and have a chance to be part of a good college team. She knew she needed a break to get her knee surgically corrected. I’m sure that was part of the discussion with NC State. She liked what she heard and State, though a step short of Ivy League/Stanford, was a good fit with a team that was a step away from being the number one XC program, which she loved. She saw herself as the final step to help State achieve the top rung.
I went to a D3 undergraduate program on par with the Stanford/Ivy League academic level. I knew that this wasn’t the place to go to become a professional athlete while it opened other doors professionally. I still found an outlet, athletically, by starting a club soccer team that I player/coached and won the school championship.
Cook probably didn’t have the option to go pro out of HS and wasn’t as aggressively recruited as Tuohy. She found a program where she could contribute immediately and made a big impact her freshman year at OSU. They must have known her issues with injury and the probable impact her form had on this. Tuohy, conversely, had a superior form which helped her stay healthy despite her knee problems. Both valued cross training as does Valby. Tuohy has the advantage insofar as her work ethic, form, attitude and talent are a unique combination that can spell career longevity. Let’s hope her future is bright internationally, and see what the next 12 months has in store.
Tuohy had no offers to go pro during/after hs. Although a great runner and still college distance recruit #1, she just was not fast enough then to get a pro contract. (2:09/4:33/9:01/15:37 prs that are 2 years old are not the same as 2:00/4:25 that led to pro moves for Cain/Efraimson/Watson/Mu/Wilson)
Touhy like most athletes had made her college choice by November of senior year. The decision to have surgery didn't come til summer after hs graduation, so knee surgery was not part of her recruiting discussion w/ NC state.
While Cook was always a good recruit, top 10-15 nationally, she did not surge to the #1 ranking until she won nxn/FL in December. At that point she had already committed to OSU. OSU was close to home, TX, and was only 1-2 runners short of being a contender.
Tuohy was ready to go pro out of HS. Her choice was to get an education and have a chance to be part of a good college team. She knew she needed a break to get her knee surgically corrected. I’m sure that was part of the discussion with NC State. She liked what she heard and State, though a step short of Ivy League/Stanford, was a good fit with a team that was a step away from being the number one XC program, which she loved. She saw herself as the final step to help State achieve the top rung.
I went to a D3 undergraduate program on par with the Stanford/Ivy League academic level. I knew that this wasn’t the place to go to become a professional athlete while it opened other doors professionally. I still found an outlet, athletically, by starting a club soccer team that I player/coached and won the school championship.
Cook probably didn’t have the option to go pro out of HS and wasn’t as aggressively recruited as Tuohy. She found a program where she could contribute immediately and made a big impact her freshman year at OSU. They must have known her issues with injury and the probable impact her form had on this. Tuohy, conversely, had a superior form which helped her stay healthy despite her knee problems. Both valued cross training as does Valby. Tuohy has the advantage insofar as her work ethic, form, attitude and talent are a unique combination that can spell career longevity. Let’s hope her future is bright internationally, and see what the next 12 months has in store.
Tuohy had no offers to go pro during/after hs. Although a great runner and still college distance recruit #1, she just was not fast enough then to get a pro contract. (2:09/4:33/9:01/15:37 prs that are 2 years old are not the same as 2:00/4:25 that led to pro moves for Cain/Efraimson/Watson/Mu/Wilson)
Touhy like most athletes had made her college choice by November of senior year. The decision to have surgery didn't come til summer after hs graduation, so knee surgery was not part of her recruiting discussion w/ NC state.
While Cook was always a good recruit, top 10-15 nationally, she did not surge to the #1 ranking until she won nxn/FL in December. At that point she had already committed to OSU. OSU was close to home, TX, and was only 1-2 runners short of being a contender.
This is post is filled with so many inaccuracies it doesn’t even rise an honest debate.
1) A combination of multiple HS records and a very good 9:01 3K performance against pro’s as well as a XC no.2 result against 100+ pro’s at USATF Club XC Championships could have easily resulted in a pro contract but she shut it down by telegraphing publicly that she was headed to college first. She was easily the most celebrated HS distance runner of her generation. As was acknowledged by a Sports Illustrated cover and numerous press articles and interviews.
2) She publicly discussed her impression of how State deals with injuries to athletes coming in or afterwards, and it made a significant impact on her decision. So if you are privy to the details of her honesty with the coaching staff about her knee injury you are just speculating about this. It is just as likely, or more, that they knew exactly of her plans for the procedure.
3) You made my point about Cook. She was a good recruit but Tuohy was the top recruit of the class of ‘24, by far. It was an unusually good year according to the press. It is interesting that of the top 10 recruits only Tuohy has distinguished herself thus far. She still has 2 years of eligibility left as do the other 9, so it may be premature to judge the entire class.
It is clear threat Cook, like Valby is a talented runner. Both are struggling with injuries right now so it is premature to judge their longevity. My comments about form (running biomechanics) comes from the education I received from one of my coaches when I trained overseas as a 13 year old. He was a middle distance Olympic silver medalist and got me off on ‘the right foot’ in my running career. I can tell you, without getting into detail here, that Tuohy’s form is the closest to perfection I’ve seen among female runners. Even among men, only Ingebritsen comes as close. It translates to getting the most energy out of each stride and reducing the chances of injury to joints, ligaments and muscles.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Cain was better than Tuohy and they are in the same generation.
But these two athletes made very different choices and because of this Cain unfortunately had to quit the sport years ago. Tuohy just continues to rise and has a bright future ahead. I always liked Cain too but she seems to come off as a bit of a whiner with a lot of excuses. Tuohy has had setbacks too but she doesn’t make excuses, just gets it done.
Tuohy had no offers to go pro during/after hs. Although a great runner and still college distance recruit #1, she just was not fast enough then to get a pro contract. (2:09/4:33/9:01/15:37 prs that are 2 years old are not the same as 2:00/4:25 that led to pro moves for Cain/Efraimson/Watson/Mu/Wilson)
Touhy like most athletes had made her college choice by November of senior year. The decision to have surgery didn't come til summer after hs graduation, so knee surgery was not part of her recruiting discussion w/ NC state.
While Cook was always a good recruit, top 10-15 nationally, she did not surge to the #1 ranking until she won nxn/FL in December. At that point she had already committed to OSU. OSU was close to home, TX, and was only 1-2 runners short of being a contender.
This is post is filled with so many inaccuracies it doesn’t even rise an honest debate.
1) A combination of multiple HS records and a very good 9:01 3K performance against pro’s as well as a XC no.2 result against 100+ pro’s at USATF Club XC Championships could have easily resulted in a pro contract but she shut it down by telegraphing publicly that she was headed to college first. She was easily the most celebrated HS distance runner of her generation. As was acknowledged by a Sports Illustrated cover and numerous press articles and interviews.
2) She publicly discussed her impression of how State deals with injuries to athletes coming in or afterwards, and it made a significant impact on her decision. So if you are privy to the details of her honesty with the coaching staff about her knee injury you are just speculating about this. It is just as likely, or more, that they knew exactly of her plans for the procedure.
3) You made my point about Cook. She was a good recruit but Tuohy was the top recruit of the class of ‘24, by far. It was an unusually good year according to the press. It is interesting that of the top 10 recruits only Tuohy has distinguished herself thus far. She still has 2 years of eligibility left as do the other 9, so it may be premature to judge the entire class.
It is clear threat Cook, like Valby is a talented runner. Both are struggling with injuries right now so it is premature to judge their longevity. My comments about form (running biomechanics) comes from the education I received from one of my coaches when I trained overseas as a 13 year old. He was a middle distance Olympic silver medalist and got me off on ‘the right foot’ in my running career. I can tell you, without getting into detail here, that Tuohy’s form is the closest to perfection I’ve seen among female runners. Even among men, only Ingebritsen comes as close. It translates to getting the most energy out of each stride and reducing the chances of injury to joints, ligaments and muscles.
I am an 'insider' and one of the biggest and long term kt fans on this site, but I try to be fair in support of all the top runners. I just try to stamp out bs when it pops up. My post had no inaccuracies.
1 - no one ever approached kt about turning pro before college. Agree she would have said 'no' anyway. Yes, she was celebrated, yes she was on si, but her 800/mile times were too slow and her health too iffy for a pro contract at that point. When she got to "4:06/8:55/15:15 and healthy" at NC state, pro discussion became relevant.
2 - she picked NC state because it was 1- east, 2-warm, 3-comfortable w/Chmiel and other NY runners, 4-close to a champ team, 5-really liked both Henes', good academic/running balance w/good engineering program (lol now biz). Nothing to do w/ surgery. She ran whole senior year xc & track w/nagging injury, but not anticipating surgery. College visits/choice were 9-11 2019, surgery discussion was 6/2020 long after college choice was done.
3- all the recent graduating classes have had great performers:
2019-Chmiel, Lane, Covert
2020-Tuohy, Dudek, Starliper
2021-Brown, Masciarelli, Rauber
2022-Hutchins, Cook, Perez, Wiley
2023- Riggs, Baloga, Nechanicsky
Touhy was the most recognized, but timewise they are all close (4:30's mile, 9:50 2 mile, sub 16 5k). Remarkably, with most of these star recruits battling injury, NC St managed to get Chmiel, Tuohy and Rauber healthy thru the finish line to win NCAA xc. Of note Riggs also not getting pro offers despite #1 status and Tuohy caliber times.
Cain was better than Tuohy and they are in the same generation.
But these two athletes made very different choices and because of this Cain unfortunately had to quit the sport years ago. Tuohy just continues to rise and has a bright future ahead. I always liked Cain too but she seems to come off as a bit of a whiner with a lot of excuses. Tuohy has had setbacks too but she doesn’t make excuses, just gets it done.
I don't think this take is fair to Cain who was a true teen phenom in days pre NIL. Had she gone to NCAA and not NOP I think she would still be around, but no way to know. It's unfortunate what happened to her.
3- all the recent graduating classes have had great performers:
2019-Chmiel, Lane, Covert
2020-Tuohy, Dudek, Starliper
2021-Brown, Masciarelli, Rauber
2022-Hutchins, Cook, Perez, Wiley
2023- Riggs, Baloga, Nechanicsky
Touhy was the most recognized, but timewise they are all close (4:30's mile, 9:50 2 mile, sub 16 5k). Remarkably, with most of these star recruits battling injury, NC St managed to get Chmiel, Tuohy and Rauber healthy thru the finish line to win NCAA xc. Of note Riggs also not getting pro offers despite #1 status and Tuohy caliber times.
The star recruit no one is really talking about right now is incoming freshman Amy Bunnage from AU (2:09/4:14/8:51). Her times will be as fast or faster than most everyone had coming into the NCAA as a distance runner.
But these two athletes made very different choices and because of this Cain unfortunately had to quit the sport years ago. Tuohy just continues to rise and has a bright future ahead. I always liked Cain too but she seems to come off as a bit of a whiner with a lot of excuses. Tuohy has had setbacks too but she doesn’t make excuses, just gets it done.
I don't think this take is fair to Cain who was a true teen phenom in days pre NIL. Had she gone to NCAA and not NOP I think she would still be around, but no way to know. It's unfortunate what happened to her.
She absolutely should have gone to the NCAA rather than going pro. And if going pro why not pick something better than the sketchiest coach and program in the sport. Very wealthy family too so money not the driving factor. It is unfortunate but in the real world choices have consequences and it is all part of the sport.
This is post is filled with so many inaccuracies it doesn’t even rise an honest debate.
1) A combination of multiple HS records and a very good 9:01 3K performance against pro’s as well as a XC no.2 result against 100+ pro’s at USATF Club XC Championships could have easily resulted in a pro contract but she shut it down by telegraphing publicly that she was headed to college first. She was easily the most celebrated HS distance runner of her generation. As was acknowledged by a Sports Illustrated cover and numerous press articles and interviews.
2) She publicly discussed her impression of how State deals with injuries to athletes coming in or afterwards, and it made a significant impact on her decision. So if you are privy to the details of her honesty with the coaching staff about her knee injury you are just speculating about this. It is just as likely, or more, that they knew exactly of her plans for the procedure.
3) You made my point about Cook. She was a good recruit but Tuohy was the top recruit of the class of ‘24, by far. It was an unusually good year according to the press. It is interesting that of the top 10 recruits only Tuohy has distinguished herself thus far. She still has 2 years of eligibility left as do the other 9, so it may be premature to judge the entire class.
It is clear threat Cook, like Valby is a talented runner. Both are struggling with injuries right now so it is premature to judge their longevity. My comments about form (running biomechanics) comes from the education I received from one of my coaches when I trained overseas as a 13 year old. He was a middle distance Olympic silver medalist and got me off on ‘the right foot’ in my running career. I can tell you, without getting into detail here, that Tuohy’s form is the closest to perfection I’ve seen among female runners. Even among men, only Ingebritsen comes as close. It translates to getting the most energy out of each stride and reducing the chances of injury to joints, ligaments and muscles.
I am an 'insider' and one of the biggest and long term kt fans on this site, but I try to be fair in support of all the top runners. I just try to stamp out bs when it pops up. My post had no inaccuracies.
1 - no one ever approached kt about turning pro before college. Agree she would have said 'no' anyway. Yes, she was celebrated, yes she was on si, but her 800/mile times were too slow and her health too iffy for a pro contract at that point. When she got to "4:06/8:55/15:15 and healthy" at NC state, pro discussion became relevant.
2 - she picked NC state because it was 1- east, 2-warm, 3-comfortable w/Chmiel and other NY runners, 4-close to a champ team, 5-really liked both Henes', good academic/running balance w/good engineering program (lol now biz). Nothing to do w/ surgery. She ran whole senior year xc & track w/nagging injury, but not anticipating surgery. College visits/choice were 9-11 2019, surgery discussion was 6/2020 long after college choice was done.
3- all the recent graduating classes have had great performers:
2019-Chmiel, Lane, Covert
2020-Tuohy, Dudek, Starliper
2021-Brown, Masciarelli, Rauber
2022-Hutchins, Cook, Perez, Wiley
2023- Riggs, Baloga, Nechanicsky
Touhy was the most recognized, but timewise they are all close (4:30's mile, 9:50 2 mile, sub 16 5k). Remarkably, with most of these star recruits battling injury, NC St managed to get Chmiel, Tuohy and Rauber healthy thru the finish line to win NCAA xc. Of note Riggs also not getting pro offers despite #1 status and Tuohy caliber times.
I recall Henes saying in an interview the surgery aka procedure was supposed to be earlier than June but got delayed due to that Covid thing that came up in March 2020.
The 2:09 not so fast, kind of a 'distance runner' like Tuohy. Always interesting to watch. Bunnage will battle the odds of 1-being a star, 2-Stanford. Amazing too if they can get Dudek back to freshman form. That will offer Dudek, Bunnage, Riggs & Stewart to go along w/ Willis and Whitaker.
The star recruit no one is really talking about right now is incoming freshman Amy Bunnage from AU (2:09/4:14/8:51). Her times will be as fast or faster than most everyone had coming into the NCAA as a distance runner.
That 8:51 puts her in the all-time top-10 performers list for the NCAA as a 17-year-old. Ridiculous. Between her and Irene Riggs, Stanford will have an amazing freshman class next year. Of course, they also have the #1 and #2 800m runners in the country as freshmen this year. I don't see the DMR record lasting for too long. Stanford is on the rise.
Cain was better than Tuohy and they are in the same generation.
Not true. Tuohy took down many of Cain’s records, like the mile, 3Ki and 2 mile records. Additionally, she was unbeaten in her last years in XC and broke numerous course records. At the end of their HS careers Tuohy’s was unmatched by Cain nor any recent HS talent. Cain was superior in 1K and lower distances. In Tuohy’s Last XC race, this time against 100+ pro’s at Lehigh, I personally witnessed her come in 2nd in a race where Cain came in 33rd. Tuohy flat out was the superior distance runner. This is verifiable and we should stop distorting the truth.
Tuohy was always naturally faster than Cain. Just wisely avoided the Nike/Salazar trap.
Anyway not sure why a runner whose career was over by 19 is being cited as someone allegedly better. KT did not sacrifice her longevity for short term goals.
Not true. Tuohy took down many of Cain’s records, like the mile, 3Ki and 2 mile records. Additionally, she was unbeaten in her last years in XC and broke numerous course records. At the end of their HS careers Tuohy’s was unmatched by Cain nor any recent HS talent. Cain was superior in 1K and lower distances. In Tuohy’s Last XC race, this time against 100+ pro’s at Lehigh, I personally witnessed her come in 2nd in a race where Cain came in 33rd. Tuohy flat out was the superior distance runner. This is verifiable and we should stop distorting the truth.
Whatever you are smoking, I'd like some please. Some of you must live in a fantasy world, a world without the internet, or are so obsessed with Tuohy that you no longer live in reality. Cain ran 4:28.25 for the mile (#2 all-time); Tuohy only ran 4:33.87 (#5 all-time). Cain ran 9:36.68 for the 2-mile (#1 all-time); Tuohy only ran 9:51.05 (#9 all-time). While Tuohy ran 9:01.81 versus 9:02.1 for Cain at 3K, Cain's 2-mile converts to an 8:56. If they would have taken a split at 3000 that day, Cain would be #1 all-time at 3000. She ran in the Olympic Trials at age 16 and qualified for the World Championships at age 17, where she placed 10th in the final, only a second behind Genzebe Dibaba. While Tuohy was winning another meaningless NXN cross country race, Cain was taking on the world's best.
I'll fix your statement for you: At the end of their HS careers, Cain's was unmatched by Tuohy nor any recent HS talent. Mary Decker's HS career is the ONLY one that can be compared to Cain's.
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