CA State Meet Saturday — How many Newbury Park boys can break the Woodward Park course record: 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4?

Glenn Rupp wrote:

freekiprop wrote:

some more modern ones for consideration, neither lv or virgin actually have the detweiller course record anymore, nico ran 14:28 solo allegedly “holding back” at woodward, and even better was his nxn win. 14+ seconds over one of the best fields of all time and a 7 second course record in the rain and mud.

Nico wasn't holding back. He said so in his interview after the race.

is it possible you listened to the post clovis interview? because he very clearly says he reeled it in in his states interview. coach has said the same thing idk where

Consider this. The NP top three could legitimately run within 15 seconds of any high schooler on any day. That’s crazy. Obviously they also have the strongest 4-6 in history as well.

The latest rage wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Some of you guys are obsessed with the effects of coaching but the NP kids would just as good at hundreds of other HSs. Their coach won the lottery twice to have such talented sets of brothers run there.

No doubt they would be good, but not as good as they are with his coaching. He does seem like a pretty big D-bag, but kudos to him for keeping all that talent on the rails and focused on collective excellence. Lots of coaches would've been content with them winning states averaging 15:10. He set the bar higher and coached 'em to become the greatest HS XC team ever. That does not happen without his coaching.

Has to be his coaching? Another coach couldn't have done it?

He was completely out-coached today by the Buchanan coach, so I'm guessing at least he could do better with the NP team. Brosnan has said all season, the focus was the state meet. He "trained through" Clovis and set everything up to peak at state. Sounds like he did everything he could think of to have his teams ready to go for this meet, yet his top four girls ran faster six weeks ago at Clovis. NP beat Buchanan by 12 at Woodbridge, lost by 7 at Clovis and 21 today. In fact, if Buchanan doesn't have their number two go down inside of 400 to go, they beat NP by 40. Someone knew how to have their runners ready when it counts most and someone else seems to have had his team ready for the first meet.

NP lost 50 places across their runners after the mile. Maybe e a bad game plan or coaching tactics?

Also, while the boy's team is easily the greatest ever, I would have expected a bigger improvement from Clovis, knowing they trained through it and focused every move since their month long altitude camp on being at their very best today, in ideal conditions. They were an average of 4 seconds faster today, than six weeks ago. Hardly a masterful peaking job.

Coaches look great when they have great athletes. It's totally disrespectful to so many hard working, quality coaches to say it wouldn't happen with another coach as was shown today. How many other coaches did masterful jobs today with much less talent that will get no love because they keep their mouths shut and let their runners take the credit they deserve?

wetpits wrote:

How low can the Young twins and Aaron Salman take it next year? In ideal conditions extrapolating it out, can we see 1410s from the twins and 1420s for Aaron at Woodward next year? Crazy to think that's possible.

Totally possible. Its crazy to think they are just juniors.

No. Yesterday should have proved that Fernandez is superior.

rojo wrote:

Putting the times in perspective

https://twitter.com/FloTrack/status/1464779728091500548

Doesn’t this read like the list of runners who disappointed after HS

Nico actually holds the fastest 5000m lifetime PR of this whole list (even though he is still a Junior) with a 13:24.26

I believe that two or three guys on the list never broke 14 for 5000m

Astonishing run by the NP Boys. The overall depth amongst the teams has been crazy recently.

Glad to see Jesuit get back into the top 5. Walt Lange gets another top 10 runner and high team place. Been coaching at the same school for nearly 50 years and has been at the majority of CA state meets since the first in 1987!

chjjjbjkk wrote:

rojo wrote:

Putting the times in perspective

https://twitter.com/FloTrack/status/1464779728091500548

Doesn’t this read like the list of runners who disappointed after HS

Nico actually holds the fastest 5000m lifetime PR of this whole list (even though he is still a Junior) with a 13:24.26

I believe that two or three guys on the list never broke 14 for 5000m

Was going to say the same thing. Eduardo Herrera is the only notable name on that list in the long term

I think these NP guys have a BETTER opportunity to succeed in college and beyond. Why? Because unlike most high school phenoms that fast they know what it’s like to share the spotlight. Most of these phenom high schoolers go to college and reality sets in when they compete against 23 year old Kenyans.

They’re no longer big fish in a small pond. They go from being the lone star to hopes of just getting in the NCAA meet. The jump from high school to college is huge where many are pounding 100 mile weeks at altitude in preparation for essentially an international race.

The NP boys in contrast know what it’s like to try and be a big fish in a big pond on a DAILY basis. That along with their 60 mile weeks, which is perfect for high school imo. Not too much and not too little. They will be ready to transition well into good college programs. I wouldn’t be surprised if they all go to NAU.

This is true for a lot of places, but what I was getting at is that, at many schools, kids who run XC are the “weirdos.” Based on their YouTube videos, these kids actually seem like the “cool kids” at the school where I teach. It may be that even the weirdos in California seem cool, but those guys would take one look at the lot that are on most XC teams in the country and say, “yeah right.”

Come on. The vast majority of sub-9:00 runners are a big fish in a small pond and many run well in college and most don't need to worry about making the NCAA meet.

Distance running is an individual sport and its about training to reach potential and it doesn't matter how good someone's teammates are. Virgin never had a teammate anywhere near level in HS or college but ran well and so did Salazar who trained with Oylmpians at Oregon.

not a duck wrote:

Was going to say the same thing. Eduardo Herrera is the only notable name on that list in the long term

Why do you feel that Herrera is the only notable name?

He is not a young guy. He is only 9 months younger than Mantz.

He has run 13:24.46, which is fine, but not world class (slower than Nico)

He only came 24th at NCAA XC. 25s behind Nico.

Again, he is a fine College runner, but not a super star for sure.

He is #2 on that list (behind Nico) for now

Nobody on that list did anything “great”

Anyone who breaks 13:30 is notable.

not a duck wrote:

chjjjbjkk wrote:

Doesn’t this read like the list of runners who disappointed after HS

Nico actually holds the fastest 5000m lifetime PR of this whole list (even though he is still a Junior) with a 13:24.26

I believe that two or three guys on the list never broke 14 for 5000m

Was going to say the same thing. Eduardo Herrera is the only notable name on that list in the long term

Louie Quintana was a 9-time all-American for Villanova.

blargh wrote:

Yes Colin Sahlman is getting a little bit of a raw deal for a couple reasons. 1. The team is the best ever, and the twins were right behind him.

2. He didn’t really have a full track season as a junior to chase times and improve. Super impressive 4:04 mile though.

He totally has the talent to go sub 4, and if he combines that with a ~8:35 3200 at arcadia, then he’ll definitely get the individual praise in the spring. He ran 8:43 last year, so it’s possible. That would put him squarely in the top 5 all time conversation. #2 at Woodward, Sub 4 Mile, and Sub 8:36 3200 would likely put him above Nico, and into the Verzbikas, Hunter discussion. I think those two are the best (and most well rounded) high school runners in history.

Can we get these guys to do Foot Locker instead of some race no one will remember in 5 years? IF Colin wants fame, he should run Foot Lockers. A time on Balboa park means something.

I agree.

Coach Fraudnan.

chjjjbjkk wrote:

Nobody on that list did anything “great”

Ryan Hall did okay. He is listed at 14:50.

We have a tendency to see German's ceiling at that age as lower than Lukas Verzbicas because the latter ran sub 4 and 8:29, while German ran 4:00/8:34. But 8:29 was with a pacer in a pro race and LV was a year older (German graduated at 17) and, because of injury and quitting running, never ran faster, while German at 18 as a college freshman ran 3:55/3:55 solo/7:47i sick, and went on to run 3:34 1500m the summer after his senior year of college. Not sure what happened at Footlocker, but then he was injury-prone.