astro wrote:
Professional running is is a dope infested joke that sports fans no longer pay any attention to. And there is no way you can clean up the sport. You will never catch the dopers, the incentive will always be there and and there will always be enough corruption and denial. We know they are cheating. They know there cheating. Just as in cycling we are watching chemistry.
Because fans used to pay attention to pro running, right? When exactly was this?
VroomVroom wrote:
newredsun wrote:
Legions of fans who loved baseball growing up because of the mystique of the records, history and tradition lost interest, including me, when big numbers of players including infielders started to suddenly challenge records that usually held up for decades until the next bona fide great ones came along.
You have this totally wrong lol. That era was baseballs greatest in terms of @sses in the stands and the sports popularity as a whole.
Yup. Baseball reached its popularity peak during the steroids era. For every fan that left, two more took their place.
Newredsun blames doping for the drop on track/running popularity. In reality, technology (access to other sports in the world), xenophobic (brown people dominating white), and the lack of “teams” (think USA vs USSR) has much more to do with it.
https://youtu.be/xXn6fbdsFKM&t=500sbring back the old days wrote:
astro wrote:
Professional running is is a dope infested joke that sports fans no longer pay any attention to. And there is no way you can clean up the sport. You will never catch the dopers, the incentive will always be there and and there will always be enough corruption and denial. We know they are cheating. They know there cheating. Just as in cycling we are watching chemistry.
Because fans used to pay attention to pro running, right? When exactly was this?
As with pro wrestling the sport needs to be re-branded, as "World Running Entertainment".
Beyond not being historically accurate, saying "no one cares so it does not matter if the sport is a PED fueled fraud" is OK is quite an argument.
76chine wrote:
2020 perspective wrote:
57:32 is equivalent to a sub 1:40 800, sub 26 10k and sub 2 hour marathon. This is the greatest distance performance we have ever seen. Do I think the shoes are a major catalyst of this? Absolutely
Agree....Vaporflys, Dragonflys (and others) are to elite racing what Pinnacle golf balls are to the PGA. So why not let pro golfers hit such golf balls?
Do the 4 runners who broke 58 min in the Valencia 1/2 marathon run between 58-59 without the unfair advantages that the shoes now offer? Possibly, and maybe slower. Same with the 4 who broke 2:04 in the Valencia marathon.
Many have seen this record spree before, back when records were repeatedly smashed in track and field (and roads) by those who were on PEDs.
Maybe Mary Decker Slaney has a perspective on these shoes and the impact on the sport. She was the lone threat to the Soviet-bloc training (PEDs), and was a heroine to many that watched her take on those women who could run incredible times.
If a shoe allows for faster running (better mechanics) that would occur barefoot on a grass track, then its unfair. I ran on some fast tracks (Univ of Florida in the early 80s was the fastest I know of), but I could have always run faster barefoot on grass.
Now, these runners are getting mechanics superior to what they are capable of barefoot on grass, so there is nothing else to say about their record times. I believe it was Nike wanting a marketing tool to increase already strong sales, and other shoe companies are following. Money, money, money, rather than any thought as to the damage to the integrity of the sport.
There's no unfair advantage when everyone has the shoes. Almost everyone on the starting line in Valencia was wearing either Vaporfly's or Adios Pro's. And get this: the record was in the mid-low 58's for most of the last decade and Kamworor brought it down a little bit lower in the Vaporfly, and Kiplimo, who debuted in 58:49, was wearing the same exact model and ran 57:37 on a course that's no more than 10 seconds faster. Literally nothing unfair about the shoes fam.
Renato Canova wrote:
No. Vincent Yator NEVER was coached by Joseph Cheromei. Mark Korir was.
Yator had Davor Savija as manager (Ika Ika), and, how is clearly written in the article, joined Mark Korir (managed by Gianni Demadonna, and Cheromei is the coach of Demadonna).
This happened for 7 weeks only after Frankfurt, Yator didn't have any program and joined the training of a friend, for recovering a better fitness only (in Honolulu he ran 2:15).
Look what Yator says, not what the "journalist" says.
"After the Frankfurt Marathon, Yator, 29, stepped up his training in Iten under coach Joseph Cheromei and training partner Mark Korir.
“My body felt good today, it’s just that I didn’t put in enough training"
He was being coached by him.
As you said talented runners go straight to the road how did Kandie go from 14:19 2017 5000m not even good enough to qualify from the heats to world record.
Also note he was not in the testing pool 2017 did not compete in 2018 then suddenly improves in 2019. So he was not tested out of competition prior to or after 2019.
macdaddy og wrote:
VroomVroom wrote:
You have this totally wrong lol. That era was baseballs greatest in terms of @sses in the stands and the sports popularity as a whole.
Yup. Baseball reached its popularity peak during the steroids era. For every fan that left, two more took their place.
Newredsun blames doping for the drop on track/running popularity. In reality, technology (access to other sports in the world), xenophobic (brown people dominating white), and the lack of “teams” (think USA vs USSR) has much more to do with it.
Geez. It's inevitable, is it not? A perfectly enjoyable discussion about sports, sports history and marketing has to be invaded by a graduate from Soy College who reflexively resorts to Marxist cultural theory.
Even your critique is backwards. Minority communities have seen a steady decline in participation and fandom in baseball for the last 30 years. There have been documentaries produced about the dismantling of high school and little league programs in those communities due to lack of interest.
Your "xenophobes" were more the most loyal fans when Aaron, Mays, Clemente and Gibson ruled the game.
bugattiaron wrote:
76chine wrote:
Agree....Vaporflys, Dragonflys (and others) are to elite racing what Pinnacle golf balls are to the PGA. So why not let pro golfers hit such golf balls?
Do the 4 runners who broke 58 min in the Valencia 1/2 marathon run between 58-59 without the unfair advantages that the shoes now offer? Possibly, and maybe slower. Same with the 4 who broke 2:04 in the Valencia marathon.
Many have seen this record spree before, back when records were repeatedly smashed in track and field (and roads) by those who were on PEDs.
Maybe Mary Decker Slaney has a perspective on these shoes and the impact on the sport. She was the lone threat to the Soviet-bloc training (PEDs), and was a heroine to many that watched her take on those women who could run incredible times.
If a shoe allows for faster running (better mechanics) that would occur barefoot on a grass track, then its unfair. I ran on some fast tracks (Univ of Florida in the early 80s was the fastest I know of), but I could have always run faster barefoot on grass.
Now, these runners are getting mechanics superior to what they are capable of barefoot on grass, so there is nothing else to say about their record times. I believe it was Nike wanting a marketing tool to increase already strong sales, and other shoe companies are following. Money, money, money, rather than any thought as to the damage to the integrity of the sport.
There's no unfair advantage when everyone has the shoes. Almost everyone on the starting line in Valencia was wearing either Vaporfly's or Adios Pro's. And get this: the record was in the mid-low 58's for most of the last decade and Kamworor brought it down a little bit lower in the Vaporfly, and Kiplimo, who debuted in 58:49, was wearing the same exact model and ran 57:37 on a course that's no more than 10 seconds faster. Literally nothing unfair about the shoes fam.
If the shoes don’t matter, then why bother timing the race? Why not just hand out medals to the top finishers?
Because times and WR’s matter, and therefore better equipment matters, that’s why. Not everyone in history has had the shoes.
I like some tech advances, but when I talk about sprints, I always make it a point to differentiate between eras. The switch from cinder to synthetic was huge, and defined two distinct eras in the sprints (it also coincided with PED use).
Maybe you guys just need to accept the new tech, but stop comparing this era’s performances to older performances. Maybe distance also has 3 eras: prehistory (amateur, clean), modern (professional, PED’s), and the current speed era (professional, PED’s, tech).
Face it, the page has turned. Historical comparison of times is now, as it was with PED and money introduction, largely meaningless.
bring back the old days wrote:
Because fans used to pay attention to pro running, right? When exactly was this?
Check out the covers of Sports Illustrated from the 1950s to 1970s. Lots of track athletes were on the cover. Indoor track meet circuit in the US sold out. Jim Ryun, Marty Liqouri, Frank Shorter, Dick Buerkle were names recognized by the general public.