Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Renato can you give some of your workouts in Iten?

Renato,

Regarding the workout for a 27 minute 10k, what do you think of a progression like this:

a) 7x1000 in 2:42, rec. 1000m in 3:30, ave. 3:06

b) 7x1000 in 2:42, rec. 1000m in 3:18, ave. 3:00

c) 7x1000 in 2:42, rec. 1000m in 3:10, ave. 2:56

d) 7x1000 in 2:42, rec. 1000m in 3:04, ave. 2:53

e) 7x1000 in 2:42, rec. 1000m in 3:00, ave. 2:51

f) Race 27:00 10k

I really don't understand the reason behind this question. I read it and a number of points came to mind.

1. Renato has already posted one way he has used to build someone for 10k, and this began with 10 x 400 at race pace with 1k aerobic threshold pace float and involved increasing the quick section and reducing the float section. Why do you not use that method, instead of asking him to comment on yours?

2. I expect Renato would tell you that it depends on how close the particular runner is to 27.00 whether yours (or any) method of training will work. So, when you asked the above question, why did you not include the PR of the runner you would wish to apply it to? I expect if the guy has a 28.00 PR, Renato would tell you that your sessions will not have the result you want. That you have some work to do first.

3. Irrespective of whether Renato replies or not. Irrespective of whether he tells you this is a brilliant suggestion or not. Why don't you just find a suitable runner and go out and try it and then come back and tell us that it works and we should apply it to ourselves, or it doesn't and we shouldn't?

My question is for Renato.

However I will be glad you answer yours in the meantime.

1. I have done this type of workout for many years, so am used to doing it this way;

1/2. Unless you have a mechanical rabbit and track, changing the distances and paces as in his prescription is not easy. Also, I usually run on marked courses instead of the track.

1/3. For example if I'm running a 1000 meter course that has every 100 meters marked, then I can do one loop at race pace, then the next loop at race pace +20% and keep repeating this way for the 14 kilometers.

1/4. I understand the same could be done with changing the distances, as Renato has stated. However the method is the same whether you change the distances or keep them the same.

1/5. If you have been reading Renato's programs, then you will know he also includes sessions like the ones I have mentioned above.

1/6. I have great respect for Renato's comments, experience, helpfulness, and suggestions. Thus I am very interested in his comments on something I have been doing myself for many years.

1/7. Renato's input has already had a good influence on the way that I do my progressions. So I am looking forward to more of his comments. I have a healthy curiousity and inventiveness with my training and am very interested in these progressions and results.

2. Note, again, from my nickname, that I am asking the question of Renato, not you.

2/2. My question for Renato is for a 27:00 minute runner for the 10k.

2/3. I am certainly not interested in your expectations. I don't even have time for my own.

3. I have already been doing these workouts for years. Renato's previous comments have been quite helpful to my making refinements and adjustments to what has been done previously and continues.

3/1. It does work. Now why don't you take your own advice and go out and try it for yourself. When you do, then come back and let me know how it works for you.

Your training is interesting, but practically is very hard to do. A 2:51 average for 14 km with variations can be like a 2:45/2:47 even pace, that means the World Record of 15 km (27:30 + 13:45 = 41:15). So, in theory is a good idea, but you must reduce a little the speed of the km of recovering (that's not recovery, but support of the final speed at fast pace).

In any case, I appreciate the attempt to use your fantasy for building some workout, according the phylosophy of the improvement of Power-Endurance, that is the key of modern training.

It's always very important to use the brain for building something of personal, in full agreement with a correct system of training. We must remember that the athletes are not machines with the same attitudes, and that is possible to have same results from very different athletes that for that reason need different kinds of training. This is also the reason because I don't agree to speak about percentages of aerobic / anaerobic in any type of event. This is an exercitation of phylosophy that nothing has to share with practice.

The big problem, in this type of workout, is that an athlete has no time to do all the training, because he needs a long period of different training for fully recovering so tough kind of training. This is also the reason because I never had an athlete able to finish my type of training, lasting about 6 month. We must always think that we have to respect the will of the athletes to compete : athletics is also to compete, not only to train. When an athlete becomes an animal for training, instead that an animal for competing, is mentally finished and no more able to reach good results.

Renato,

Thanks much for your comments.

Something I have been thinking of for awhile is the sharing of training. I post tidbits on message boards here and there but am often reluctant to post some of the actual sessions I do. The reason is that, though I like to share with others personally and do, posting my workouts on a message board -- where I know a certain competitor might pick up the information -- is something that concerns me.

So it is a conflict. I like sharing with everyone really. The thing about this 1 competitor is that he is tight lipped and doesn't share at all, not with anyone. So I feel it would be some advantage to him to know what I do, and then also that he would not share the same openly with others. We have a rather intense rivalry and basically I don't agree with his philosophy of not sharing. It is ironic though, as because of him I end up not being as open as otherwise.

I hope this makes sense and wonder if anyone else can relate?

No one else can do my training anyway.

I swing from trees and eat snakes for lunch.

Renato Canova wrote:

Your training is interesting, but practically is very hard to do. A 2:51 average for 14 km with variations can be like a 2:45/2:47 even pace, that means the World Record of 15 km (27:30 + 13:45 = 41:15). So, in theory is a good idea, but you must reduce a little the speed of the km of recovering (that's not recovery, but support of the final speed at fast pace).

2:45/2:47 is approximately 1/2 the difference between 2:42 and 2:51 (which would be 2:45.5).

This is the same as my figures for such workouts, such sessions having a high work output but not the same difficulty or intensity as a race.

I usually do the same distance, i.e. 10k instead of 14k, or do 2 sets of 10k with a 20:00 rest in between, then sometimes going for minutes instead of distance for the intervals.

bump

This needs to be back

Renato, quite a few people have asked this already but I will remind:

You said in Iten if there was time you could post Shaheen, Kwalia, and Kemboi's full training and dicuss this.

Do you have plans to do this still?

Does anyone know if Kemboi is training?

He is the only one who can take Bekele in a 10K (and also maybe Sihine).

Didn't Scott Douglas do an interview with Renato?

When is that coming out?

Renato,

are you still the coach of Lebid?

I saw on iaaf.org a while ago that he trains 3 times a day... will he do any indoors?

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What do you think about an effective build up to a 20k/half marathon race with regards to training sessions? Should you seek to, just like renato marathon training, improve AnT then increase aerobic threshold towards the event or take the 10k approach. I only ask as not much has been written about this distance.

Also would a 20k/half runner have special a max lass?

Renato maybe you could post some of your thoughts on training for 20k races.

Now I am in Italy, arrived last Friday for 5 Mulini. Today I was in San Vittore Olona, where Stephen Cherono won the race falling down before the last lap, when already had about 80m of gap on Boniface Kiprop. The course was dry and flat, so the conditions were good for Shaheen, that doesn't like mud. This one was the last test before World Cross Country Championships, also if I have the idea to put him in long cross in Nairobi next Saturday for the last test of long endurance (but it depends on his recovery in the next days).

Regarding Sergey, he doesn't run any indoor this year. Last year he wanted to run indoors, but I didn't agree, so I refused to make programs for a strategy that I could not agree. After the bad past season, Sergey came back to the old system : cross season finding the top shape for European Ch. in December, and then trying to maintain the same level for January and the beginning of February. Today Sergey won in Caceres in Spain, where second was Sultan Zaman, my Qatari athlete that is growing very well in the training camp in Iten, Kenya. For him this was the first competition of the year, he will run yet next Sunday in Luxemburg or Belgium, then he will come back to Iten where we stay with all Qatar team till 15th of March. Today, n. 4 was James Kwalia, also him in Iten. From the same group, regarding ladies, today I had in Caceres the Ugandian Dorcus Inzikuru, winner, and in 5 Mulini Rita Jeptoo (3rd on Saturday in European Cup and 3rd again today) and Florence Barsosio (only n. 11), in Italy for running next Sunday in Italian Club Championships.

Sergey will run yet next week in Italian Club Championships, then goes back to Ukraine for preparing World Cross Country Ch. (12 km). He has the goal to increase his endurance at high intensity, because is very fast in the final if the race doesn't start very fast, but finds some difficulty in following the pace if the speed at the beginning is very high. For reaching this goal, he has to develop his power-endurance using long intervals at high speed, or long fartlek (for example : 2 times 6:00 + 2 times 5:00 + 2 times 4:00 + 2 times 3:00 + 6 times 1:00 very fast, recovery 3:00 moderate pace and 1:00 between the minutes fast). Sergey normally runs a lot of km not fast, going for short distances on track. This is a system that doesn't allow to increase the specific endurance too much : we need to use long and fast distances for increasing this quality. That's the reason because he is very good when the course is muddy. The mud reduces the opportunity to run fast, and always is an advantage for athletes not very strong in long endurance at high speed. This happened in Oostend 2001, when Sergey was 2nd with a lot of mud, but for being competitive in dry conditions (like probably this year) he needs more specific endurance, his very good strength endurance is not enough.

Regarding Boniface Kiprop, he now goes home for preparing long run in WCCCh, and from 15th of February has to chose between Iten and Nakuru where preparing the race. In Iten I have the other Ugandian athlete (his old brother Martin Toroitich that yesterday won National Championships, and Wilson Busienei that is very strong on track), with also Dorcus Inzikuru that will run short race at WCCCh. Boniface competed every week, and now needs a period of hard training for reaching a better shape.

Regarding the fact that many athletes train 3 times a day, I want to explain to European and American runners that really their sessions are 2, with a third very early in the morning but also very slow. I told that with Shaheen we tried to use 2 sessions of good quality very close in the same morning, but I preferred to change after 40 days because it was very difficult to recover, and the general volume had to decrease for permitting this type of strategy. My plan for Shaheen during the last month is to go to 3 times a day for the first 5 days of the week, then only one session on Saturday and full rest on Sunday. This is the same type of training that he used during the last month before the World Record of steeple last year. But, for being able to work so hard for 3 weeks, he needs to be at 80% of the shape without pushing too much in the 3 previous months of training.

Regarding Nicholas Kemboi, he is in training from the beginning of January, but yet far from a good shape. In any case, is now motivated, and I think that can run well from the next month of May.

At the moment, inside my Kenyan group, the faster is Moses Mosop, that didn't want to run WCCCh but, after winning last week very well in Portugal, changed idea (also for my pressure) and tries to qualify for World Cross, being probably dry (he's not good when is muddy). Instead, John Korir had a lot of problems, and is not in good condition. He can qualify in any case for Kenyan team, but has to solve an ulcer that disturbs him very much when has to push for long time. Anyway, from next week the training becomes harder and more specific.

Renato, great info.

What does Shaheen and Kwalia do in training at this time?

Renato, thanks for all your contributions to this board and all of sport. You seem to be one of the most knowledgable people ever in distance running and a generous person that shares with all. Thanks for coming into a message board and exposing people to top level training and racing that can't possibly be taught in a class. Good luck to all your athletes and to to all you have shared with.