I did 100. what did you do? Grow some.
I did 100. what did you do? Grow some.
PEOPLE PEOPLE! Let's get things under control!
Every time we fight, Eddy Lee sheds a tear.
14 today, 8M tempo in 45:34. first 4M at mp, second 4M supposed to be at 1/2 MP. 6:02,6:05,5:47,5:58 (23:52),5:30,5:30,5:25,5:17 (21:42). In trainers. Solo. Headwind at times on the way out. A handful of short stretches on snow/ice. This was my first hard tempo of the year, but it felt very relaxed. The first four miles were very easy and didn't seem much faster than non-workout days, and I didn't drop the hammer for the last 4M, just picking up a bit to where it was semi-tough. Clearly, a big 10k pr is going to happen next month (34:19 last year).
How's training going, Sair, Boingo, Solo Joe, Ron?
Awful workout jonesy. Here's to better luck next go around. Were you sick or have you been battling injury?
Finally the weather is co-operating enough for me not to just slog through 60 minutes of 7:30 pace and call it a day. I'm getting more miles in now and quicker.
Last few workouts:
1x1600 in 4:51, 4-5 rest, 12x400 @ 66-68 in sets of 4 with 60 rest, then 3-4 rest
4x5 min on, 1 min off (@ 5k pace)
4 sets of (600, 2 min rest, 400, 1 min rest, 200) then 3-4 minutes @ 1:40, 65, 30
65's and 66's actually feel essentially effortless now. i think that's a good thing. dunno what sort of times that will translate to...i've got some season predictions in my head but i think i'm going to keep them to myself, lest i not be able to put my money where my mouth is.
anyone want to take a guess, bar injury, what this season might hold?
Mr Jones:
Some constructive criticism:
We are 80 days into the new year and this was your first "hard tempo"? Also, this was done at an average of 20-mile race pace, like you would even know what that is?
A tempo-run is a run that is slower than LT pace (which by definition is 15k/10mile race pace) ... so I guess it is fine that you are running marathon pace, but I think you need to practice the 8-10 mile LT runs that Tony Benson prescribes. That is, you need to do 7-8 miles at close-to-LT (for women and low-mileage trainers) or 10 miles at about :10-15 per mile slower than race pace.
Also, why do you time every mile? That has got to be hurting you mentally if you run 100 mpw and time nearly every mile.
If you can run 15:37 for 5k (5:00 pace) and I think you can, then you should be doing 5:30 for 10 mile AT runs and about 6:45-7:00 for your base runs.
I find it hard to believe that you run 100 mpw and you haven't run a long run that you were happy with in a year? What gives? I don't personally believe you need long runs at 6:00-pace at your level ... but if you do think that, why aren't you doing them?
I used to do a lot of faster-paced long runs from 17-23 miles but the fastest was about 6:00 pace and most were 6:15 or so. I also ran a 2:35 marathon, but I was a junior in HS. So I think you are overthinking this stuff.
I don't think you can run much in terms of VO2max intervals AND long tempo runs AND HARD long runs. Also, I don't think you should be running VO2max training when you still running on an indoor track and there is ice and snow outside. It is well known that you can't advance your condition through VO2max training indefinitely ... after about 12 weeks you start to get stale and you must return to a full base training period.
Just my advice. I really do want you to succeed, but I see you making mistakes that can be avoided, common ones that lots of people do.
Namely:
A) too much programming: i.e. a pace for every run you do.
B) timing each run down to the mile or half mile ... this can only be a negative. I would rather see you use an HRM and just note the overall time of the run.
C) pushing aerobic runs too hard and long runs too hard. I would not even be working on what pace you do long runs. Again I would either do it by feel and just track how much time you spend running, or use an HRM to keep a lid on the effort. I used to meet my friends for long runs and they were all in college and most were faster than me and we just picked a course (not usually a distance) and sometimes we added on if we felt good. But mostly we went for 1:45 and sometimes 2:00 if they were marathon training.
eddylee;
Glad to see you are still going strong. Last year at the beginning of the thread I gave you some good advice and it seemed that you did the direct opposite, with poor results. A year later, the advice remains the same. You are in better shape and racing well, so you can now actually practice race pace. Try 1200 @ 3:12-14, plus 300@45 with 60, sec rest; 10 min rest then 400-600-400 with 90 sec rest @ 64 pace.
A week later, try 800@2:08,60 sec rest 300 45; 10 min rest, 600 1:35 plus 200 +200.
My no.1 1500 m runner did these at the end of indoor and finished witha 4:16 mile. Good luck
14-flat wrote:
Some constructive criticism:
Let me just add my two cents - jonesy, why the hell are you still doing 100 mile weeks? We're six weeks away from May 1. Time to start miler training. With the workouts you're doing, and the slow times it's producing, I'd say you need to work on your speed, son.
Or if you're not training to be a miler, why are you on the sub-4:00 1500 thread?
Thanks for the advice :)
I ran 406xx (will post official results when posted).
baby pr
64,210(66),315(65),406(51 ouch)
I need to finish my races. I know I can go faster the last 200meters, but the problem is just fighting through the pain and fatigue.
One step closer.
I appreciate the advice. It's a good idea to try the faster ten miler, which at the moment would be almost a two minute pr (56:59 enroute in a 1:14 half marathon). I've dropped time continuously at every distance for three years (ex. 10k-41:08 (2005), 40:12 (2006), 36:05 (2006)/35:19 (2007-track), 34:19 (2008)--last 6 miles of workout were in 33:27, which is about 34:32 pace), so the training is working pretty well, except for the mile training. I'm still doing 100 mile weeks because virtually all of my pr's have come on that and because at my age I want to continue to drop all my pr's, so I'm having difficulty deciding to concentrate on the mile pr. Now that the track is clear of snow (or was prior to the bit of snow this morning) and the bike path is mostly clear, I can step up the training. The progressive long runs working down to marathon goal pace are valuable. This was my first chance up here to get a hard run this year, because of the ice and snow. As for the MP/half mp run, that's from my club coach and is a good change of pace workout. The timing issue doesn't matter and I do non-workout runs usually around 7/mile or slower.
The name 'tempo' is just a generic term for hard, non-race pace runs of 20-50 minutes. Anyway, people use the terms differently. The point is to do a wide variety of paces and distances. My 8 miler was in 5:41.8 pace, which is just two seconds slower than my HM pr, but the key is that the first half was at MP goal pace and the second half ended up at near-term 10k goal pace. Because I did that solo, in trainers, without going that hard or kicking (last 4M was at 33:45 10k pace), I'm going to revise downward the near-term 10k goal to breaking 33. I plan to race a mile fresh April 10 before a 10k the next day, and if the mile produces a decent pr, I'll train more specifically for the mile after that. I would love to run that 15:37 5k next month and appreciate the prediction.
Jonesy one thing is your assumption that you won't be able to drop any of your other times if you run less than 100 mpw. Look at Galen Rupp who has run 13:18 and 7;44 off of lower mileage in the 60's and more speedwork. You don't necessarily have to sacrifice events 10K and below just because your training is a little shorter and faster.
Still injured :( Every time I think I'm on the mend, damn PF comes back.
Good going Eddy, keep those PRs coming! You've got a legit shot this summer.
Good going boingo too, and solojoe, hope you can get things back on track, you were doing very impressive training around the new year.
Jonesy, don't let the b****rds get you down. You know what works for you, and until it stops working, (if it ain't broke) why fix it? You're still improving steadily despite having been held back by bad weather conditions. We can't all be running around in sunny Socal!
Shame about Ron's departure, if he's reading this, I hope he reconsiders and at least gives us the odd update - he was coming on in leaps and bounds.
To everyone else, good luck! Sorry this thread seems to annoy so many of you. I don't understand.
Sair, veterans of plantar fasciitis told me that to get over that, you have to alternate running x number of steps on the sides, front (toes), and then back (heels) of your feet, gradually building up, and also try coiling (flexing) your foot down from the toes and front and back of the foot, both off your feet and when running (when striking the ground with the foot, for x number of steps again, building up. This is supposed to work and I do it occasionally and so far have avoided PF.
Eddy, great job to run 4:06 and with a better close, say, 48, you will be at 4:03. You're moving into striking range. Good workouts, Boingo, but hard to tell exactly what they mean as they are controlled efforts. Since you've run 4:20 a number of times, and you feel that you're in better shape now, I'm going to predict 4:14 (or probably you only get a 1500m race--3:55.
BEER STEAK wrote:
I haven't posted since page 3, but I'm back. I lost all of last track season to an injury, but since starting to run again in July I've posted these race results:
Mid-October - 16:42 5k road
Early November - 16:11 5k road
Early December - 4:32 indoor mile
Mid-December - 15:49 5k road
Mid-February - 4:25 indoor mile
I just keep chipping away. Training is going awesome, I'm able to do things endurance-wise that I never could before. My speed has always been good and it's still there, so it's going to be an exciting spring once I start sharpening up.
I'll quote myself to bring this back to the front.
Recent races:
Mid-March - 1:58.50 indoor 800 (won by a lot, so basically a solo time trial)
Recent workouts:
- 6x400 in 65 with 65 second standing rest (surprisingly hard, not sure why)
- 5x1000 w/ 400 jog in 3:06, 3:06, 3:05, 3:03, 2:58 (felt great the whole way)
- 3x200 in 25.8, 25.9, 25.5 following my 800 race (close to 100% - probably 400 race pace?)
I think I'm close. With competition I think I could go under 1:57 for the 800 and under 15:30 for 5k. That's gotta get me close to 4-flat. I'll keep the updates coming.
Hi Sair - I have been reading and I'll keep posting. The night I decided to jump off the thread was when things were out of control. You had to read 10 posts worth of rewrites and crap to get to a worthwhile running post. It looks like things have calmed down and gotten more serious. It may be due to Eddylee's awesome performances of late that has everyone thinking he can do it! Good job Eddylee on the latest 4:06 1500m. Going from running mid 4:30's in the mile to a 4:06 1500m in a couple of weeks is really good! You are going to do it!
Here's my latest report:
Ran a 4-mile St.Pats run here in KC on 3/14. Ran a 23:07 on a pretty hilly course. Came in 10th and won my age group. I didn't care too much about time as it was certainly a good workout.
I wrapped up my Indoor season on 3/20 by running the Mile at JCCC put on by
http://www.heartlandathleticservices.com/
. I was really looking forward to this race as I was hoping to run around 4:32. I managed a 4:41. Uggh! What I didn't anticipate was how tired and worn out I would be from the previous 4 days of being in Vegas at a trade show. Spent most of the time on my feet and not enough sleep. I lost focus by concerning myself with making a living and not on the more important stuff like running. LOL! My knees are still hurting from standing on concrete! Probably the coolest thing about this last race was I got beat by a 41 year old (I hope you're reading Jonesy!). This guy had some wheels. I was making a move during the second half and he heard me coming. He turned it on and I couldn't catch him. Got beat by 1/2 second. Winning time was 4:30.
In summary, I've raced the mile Indoor six times since 1/17 and the 800m twice.
4:43.48 - 1/17, 4:40.xx - 1/24, 4:37.62 - 2/7, 4:47.xx - 2/20, 4:37.95 - 3/7, 4:41.64 - 3/20
Next stop - first 5K track race ever at Missouri Relays this coming Fri. Was planning on running the 1500m on Sat, but found out the Olathe HM is on Sat. I committed to pacing somebody to run a 1:30.
Most likely, I'll be racing the 1500m every week until mid-late May. There's plenty to do. Looking to back the mileage down to around 50/week and murdering the track workouts to get faster.
eddy,
great job, but can we get the official time?
Better luck next year.
Is it too late to join in on this thread? I have been following the thread since June, and I've always wanted to join in...
4:06.90
I get another shot this weekend at UCLA.
Thanks for the kinda words, Jonesy, Sair and Ron.
Keep this up :D