My goal of sub 4:00 1500-I will not stop until I reach my goal.

Your 800 speed suggests that you can do it, but you are right on the edge. I would incorporate 3x1200 as a core workout (once every 7-10 days) and start at 3:24 with 3-4 min rest and work down to 3:18. If you can get there, go to 3x800 in 2:10 with 2-3 min rest. Finally, and this is my best predictor workout- 1200 3:15, 4 min rest; 400-600-400 90 sec rest at 64 pace.

If you keep your distance up this should also lead to a great 3k. Aim higher than 9:55 Good luck

First things first. You need to build a good working cardio system and get your body to work at high levels of heart rate. The safest way to do that is train your heart/lungs, rather than beat up your legs with faster workouts. That 3x1K is way to fast with way to much rest. Make it 5x1K with 90 seconds rest and drop it back to 3:10 and work your way down. The other workout for the week do a 3-4 mile tempo run, 5-6 minutes rest + 6x 15 seconds hard hills. In between just work on maintaining 50 miles a week and you should be there in no time. Please critique.

I'll respond real quickly because I am off in about 2 minutes.

When I was training on my own for the fall, I would do 1 VO2max workout(4-5x1200@5kpace+3-4minrecovery), 1 tempo run of either 4-5 miles, 2-3x 2miles or 4-6x1mile+1min rest, and one long run per week of 12-14miles. My total weekely mileage would be around 55-65 (twice @70). I responded really well to this(1710 5k-1622 5k over the span of 3-4months).

If I had the privelage of designing my own workouts, I would cut down the intensity and increase the volume(like you said). I would also add a 4-5mile tempo run @ about 545-550pace.

As a freshman in college my coach bumped me up to 1500 from the 800. It took some getting used to, but I managed to run 4:10. As a sophomore my goal was to break 4. I trained really hard and only managed to run 4:04. Junior year I had mono, but I'm convinced that had I been healthy I would have beat the 4:00 minute mark.

Anyway, I digress. As a senior I was left with one track season to achieve my goal. The workouts that I feel helped me the most were as follows:

[600 in 1:32, 30 sec rest, 200 in 30, full recovery] x 3

2x4x400 in 64 with 60 sec rest in between intervals, full recovery between sets

1000 in under 2:40, 2:40 rest, 3x600 in 1:34-1:36, 1:30 rest, 3x300 in under 45, 100 jog rest

I also incorporated some weightlifting and plyometrics. This regimen not only took me down to 3:59, but my 800 time improved significantly as well.

Since you don't control the type of workouts you do in the morning, you don't have too many options. I'd say - as a criticism of those workouts - that they should probably all incorporate more volume. The shortest workout we do is at least two miles of quality.

You're running enough workouts. Maybe not the exact same way that I would do them, but if you're improving, that's a solid start. Just put in more mileage. I think 70 is probably the minimum I'm going to be needing to hit my goals this year (4:13 in the mile or faster). Your relative 5k endurance isn't great for the time you're aiming for - nor is your 800m blistering - so both have to come down. If you're a better mid-distance guy, you could maybe get by with a 1:57 to break 4. If you're more of a strength runner you might have to crack 15:15 or even 15:00.

If the kids best 1600 is 4:40 and 5k 16:20's, he can't run 1200s in 3:24 to 3:18.

I don't think that you should shy away from the full recovery, fast reps, just don't make them your focus right now. Spending some time at those speeds will make you comfortable and efficient running at sub 4:20/mile pace. Just make sure that you give yourself enough recovery to keep these workouts from being too draining, and don't neglect that more aerobic intervals, like the other posters mentioned. The really fast stuff should be a secondary or tertiary focus.

Your PRs show us you are not naturally strong aerobically,

PRs:

800-2:00.56(last spring)

1500-4:16(last spring)

mile-4:40(last spring)

5k-16:22(this fall)

10k-36:00(this fall)

half marathon-1:17:30(this fall)

So you will not get to sub-4:00 for 1500m if you do not improve your 800m time to 1:56 or so. Work on that before working on endurance/tempo/stamina. That is easy to do, working on speed is not.

So, aim for 400m in ~52s, and 800m in ~1:56-1:57. Then come back and work on your 1500m time.

You do not give the impression you know what you are doing, and you are not going to learn from a few posts on a message board. Find a coach who has experience, tell him you want 52/1:56 and go from there.

Good luck.

The goal is to run 64 pace. Therefore, at least once every 7-10 days he needs to attempt a goal oriented workout. I suggested starting at 68 pace and working down.

On a related point, I don't think he needs to run 70 miles a week if he is running 55. If one can't run 65 sec relaxed, then there is no hope for 4:00

AM-1.5 w/u

20min fartlek on grass 1on/1off

1mile c/d

Total: Ill just say 5.5miles

I really appreciate everyone's input. I totally forget to mention that I did a time trial a few weeks back. The time trial consisted of a 4min run on the track. I covered about 1430meters. I'm assuming that I could have gone like 412-414 for the 15.

So, I am in far better shape that I was last year, and it is still only December.

PM: 4.5 easy recovery

Total for the day: 10

not to be the pessimist here, but i would definitely set your goal a little slower than 4 flat. I think you might be able to get there the year after this, but dropping from a 4:40 mile to a 4:17 in one year would be pretty intense (especially with just 2 flat 800 speed). Definitely crank the 3s,4s, and 5s, at race pace once you get into the season.

I think you do have good endurance, and your training is fine. But what is your percentage body fat? That has a huge influence on performance could you drop 5-6 pounds in the next few months?

12/14AM: mile w/u 4x(200+200slowjog)27,28,27,27 .5 c/d (would have liked to do more, but I was going to be late for work)------------------------------

yes wrote:

I think you do have good endurance, and your training is fine. But what is your percentage body fat? That has a huge influence on performance could you drop 5-6 pounds in the next few months?

I am 6'l'' and weigh 156. In my physical performance and evaluation class laster quarter, i was measured with having 6% body fat.

you're well ahead of me at distances below 5k, I'm probably close to 16:20 5k shape right now, I'm ahead of you at 10k, and oddly you have a better 1/2 marathon than I do right now, but obviously endurance is a weak point for you, based on that 1500m. you have a 5:45-goal for 4-5 mile tempos. you should be running that faster, as I do that kind of tempo. Taking that time trial, you are not that far off, but definitely get in a good fast 90+ minute run every Sunday, incorporate strides into many of your runs for speed, and increase your tempo pace. Finally, it is very clear that your speed workouts have far too long rests. If you shorten the rests to 60-90 seconds (o.k. 2 minutes max (a lap jog)) and make them jog rests, then you're going to get more benefit from those workouts.

PM: 4.5mile shake out run for the 2mile race in the morning.

Do you want to run this 3:59 in January or in May?

It is pretty clear that your coach has a short-term outlook for you: i.e. run fast NOW as in this week.

Not sure how much you should even be running in the afternoon if he is running you this hard, but what I would do is every run I did on my own (afternoons) would be 5 miles easy, and 10 miles fairly hard on Sunday.

Keep this program up for December, January, February and March. That is 14 more weeks. Then in April, May and June you can cut down the volume and just do what your coach gives you and focus on a 1:55-57 800 and a 4:00 1500.

The 14 weeks of base should give you what you need.

If you can do this you can run 4:00 for 1500.

1000m: 3:20, 3:00 recovery

800m: 2:10, 3:00 recovery

3x100 meter strides in three minutes, three minute recovery

3x300 in 44; 30 sec. at 200 w/ last 100 zooming in, all w/ 3min recovery.

3x100 meter strides in three minutes, 3 minute recovery.

800 (in racing spikes) 2:02.

If you can do this workout you can run 4:00 for 1500m.

12/15AM: 2mile w/u 2mile race in 10:03 (3rd overall) 2mile c/dThe course was flat, and there was no reason why I should not have broken 10. My legs felt a little heavy in the beginning, but I had a strong last half mile. This was still about a 27 second PR so, I cannot complain too much.I just plan on going to the gym tonight after work to do an easy 4-5. =====================================================

14-flat wrote:

Do you want to run this 3:59 in January or in May?

It is pretty clear that your coach has a short-term outlook for you: i.e. run fast NOW as in this week.

Not sure how much you should even be running in the afternoon if he is running you this hard, but what I would do is every run I did on my own (afternoons) would be 5 miles easy, and 10 miles fairly hard on Sunday.

Keep this program up for December, January, February and March. That is 14 more weeks. Then in April, May and June you can cut down the volume and just do what your coach gives you and focus on a 1:55-57 800 and a 4:00 1500.

The 14 weeks of base should give you what you need.

I think our coach wants us to have a little peak for indoor, but my ultimate goal is sub 4 in May.

We have 3-4 indoor meets in Flagstaff, and then right into the outdoor season.

I have no specific goals for indoor other than just to enjoy the experience and learn some things about racing.