But I think he didn’t, given the context I described. He has said a lot -we therefore have to speculate in what all that mean given the context. So I tried to describe what I think is the most probable meaning given all he has said, and given what he did (which race he chose, which circumstances and so on). I don’t think you can pick one or two cites, and ignore all other sayings and indications. -There’s a totality here, as always.
"Normally ... but ..." indicates an exception to the rule. This means whatever he said before, which applied to normal times, must be temporarily ignored.
What makes sense is that he would choose a fast-paced race and try to stick with the leaders, to see how long he can, exactly for that experience, in a race where the result isn't important.
It doesn't mean that. It qualifies what he has said previously, it doesn't discount it.
How do you know the result wasn't important? Trying to stick with the leaders suggested he wanted to compete with them. Otherwise he would have likely adopted a pace he could sustain.
"Normally ... but ..." indicates an exception to the rule. This means whatever he said before, which applied to normal times, must be temporarily ignored.
What makes sense is that he would choose a fast-paced race and try to stick with the leaders, to see how long he can, exactly for that experience, in a race where the result isn't important.
For the first time you give a little bit to the assumption that it probably wasn’t totally random that Jakob chose that exact HM that he chose. But the rest of your narrative also here is in my opinion not as probable as the alternatives:
If one of Jakob’s reasons for racing was to get a learning experience (which seems probable also in my view) I think he would have been better off choosing another race or at least another pace, because what he learned now was only that he sucked both in the 10k and the HM, and not how to run the HM! And since Jakob isn’t stupid (but only maybe very deluded) he (as everyone else) didn’t have to run an all out first 10k to know that that’s not the way to run a HM -that’s a given even if one is very deluded about one’s own shape…
If Jakob’s main goal had been to collect experience he wouldn’t run against the big guys, which he should have known he couldn’t follow even to half run mark. No, he would have chosen a low key race later in the fall, fully rested, and with more mileage in his body, and with an approach that wouldn’t have ruined his reputation and made him look like a complete fool. And he could have run the race in various paces to get experience, and not the hellish experience that is a given when you go all out…
We don’t know what was “swirling ” around in Jakob’s head when he attended Copenhagen, and when he f.x was at the 8k mark. -He must have known that the pace was killing him (despite a slower pace than expected -Jakob clearly was in a very bad 10k shape) -but he clearly chose a 10k NR when every other options were denigrating. Initially the option in his head might have been: 1. Winning, if lucky. 2. Setting a WR if lucky. 3. Running a fast time if unrealistic to follow the Africans. 4. Breaking the European record. 5. Running faster than Mo Farah’s pb. 6. Breaking the NR (59.48). 7. Running sub 61. 8. Not being totally gassed at the 10k mark -letting the big guys go away; concentrating on getting experience by varying the pace in the 11k reminding distance, and getting a decent finish time (one, two or three minutes behind Kiplimo/Sawe). Running an all out 10k opening and then walk/ run swaying through hell, hardly was an intentionally option here -just to experience that one was deluded both in the 10k and HM…
For the first time you give a little bit to the assumption that it probably wasn’t totally random that Jakob chose that exact HM that he chose. But the rest of your narrative also here is in my opinion not as probable as the alternatives:
If one of Jakob’s reasons for racing was to get a learning experience (which seems probable also in my view) I think he would have been better off choosing another race or at least another pace, because what he learned now was only that he sucked both in the 10k and the HM, and not how to run the HM! And since Jakob isn’t stupid (but only maybe very deluded) he (as everyone else) didn’t have to run an all out first 10k to know that that’s not the way to run a HM -that’s a given even if one is very deluded about one’s own shape…
If Jakob’s main goal had been to collect experience he wouldn’t run against the big guys, which he should have known he couldn’t follow even to half run mark. No, he would have chosen a low key race later in the fall, fully rested, and with more mileage in his body, and with an approach that wouldn’t have ruined his reputation and made him look like a complete fool. And he could have run the race in various paces to get experience, and not the hellish experience that is a given when you go all out…
We don’t know what was “swirling ” around in Jakob’s head when he attended Copenhagen, and when he f.x was at the 8k mark. -He must have known that the pace was killing him (despite a slower pace than expected -Jakob clearly was in a very bad 10k shape) -but he clearly chose a 10k NR when every other options were denigrating. Initially the option in his head might have been: 1. Winning, if lucky. 2. Setting a WR if lucky. 3. Running a fast time if unrealistic to follow the Africans. 4. Breaking the European record. 5. Running faster than Mo Farah’s pb. 6. Breaking the NR (59.48). 7. Running sub 61. 8. Not being totally gassed at the 10k mark -letting the big guys go away; concentrating on getting experience by varying the pace in the 11k reminding distance, and getting a decent finish time (one, two or three minutes behind Kiplimo/Sawe). Running an all out 10k opening and then walk/ run swaying through hell, hardly was an intentionally option here -just to experience that one was deluded both in the 10k and HM…
I guess we have to disagree whether the experience he wanted to learn was to run a controlled 60-61 minutes later in the fall, or how it is to run with the "big guys", even if only for 10K or so.
No one said it was random. There may be other reasons, like being close to home, and/or running it that weekend so it doesn't screw up recovery or preparation for the next thing (e.g. cross country and 2025).
I wouldn't read too much into the results for a race that was not the Olympics or Diamond League, at the end of a long season focused on 1500m on the track. His result was a realistic expectation, given the lack of specific preparation.
He didn't say he lacked specific preparation. So you know better than he what his training should be?
Yes, I know. But that isn’t my intention -I’m only looking for some hope for Jakob’s distance capability, but have a hard time finding any, especially in the fans’ really strange and fluffy arguments… I really really hope they eventually can come up with something less hilarious and with a little more substance…!
Maybe to you and your cantankerous buddy on this thread, but you are a minority.
Well I guess Kiplimo’s and Sawe’s fans were laughing their arses off after Filip’s “they always get nervous on the start line with Jakob there” and then watching little brother’s performance… And for the record: Jacob now out does Jakob in internal meetings by 2 -1, or 3-1 if we also count WC xc 2019 where they ran the same course but in different classes -Kiplimo in the big boys’ class (second placing), Ingebrigtsen number 12 in the little boys’ class…(Despite the former being younger…).
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
He literally came off some much shorter track races. You are nothing but a bitter old fraud, aching from jealousy and anger in knowing that Jakob is young with a full life ahead while you are nothing more than an angry, aged twit plagued with myriad failures who realizes death from old age and infirmities is imminent.
I guess we have to disagree whether the experience he wanted to learn was to run a controlled 60-61 minutes later in the fall, or how it is to run with the "big guys", even if only for 10K or so.
No one said it was random. There may be other reasons, like being close to home, and/or running it that weekend so it doesn't screw up recovery or preparation for the next thing (e.g. cross country and 2025).
I wouldn't read too much into the results for a race that was not the Olympics or Diamond League, at the end of a long season focused on 1500m on the track. His result was a realistic expectation, given the lack of specific preparation.
He didn't say he lacked specific preparation. So you know better than he what his training should be?
He didn't need to say it. Anyone who understands training (which automatically excludes you) knows he hadn't trained specifically for the HM. Your idiocy is out of this world.
Filip and Henrik advised Jakob NOT to run the HM. In fact, they thought he wouldn’t even finish. I’m surprised you omitted this from interviews.
You don’t have to go looking for the source -I believe you, and it also seems logical that the brothers may have said something like that (I don’t remember exactly that they said this, but my feeling is that I may have read something like that, without it setting it’s mark in me, and we know also that both Henrik and Filip warned Jakob about the danger of opening in the front in the Olympics -wrongly I think, because the pace was the problem) but this doesn’t make a difference:
I think both of the brothers might have seen 36 hours as too little rest. And I also think they might have feared a blowing up in the last k (because of a WR pace and too little preparation), and even some danger of injuries. So yes, they may have warned Jakob. But that doesn’t mean they didn’t have hope for him; they might just have seen this hope to be better later in the fall…
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Filip and Henrik advised Jakob NOT to run the HM. In fact, they thought he wouldn’t even finish. I’m surprised you omitted this from interviews.
You don’t have to go looking for the source -I believe you, and it also seems logical that the brothers may have said something like that (I don’t remember exactly that they said this, but my feeling is that I may have read something like that, without it setting it’s mark in me, and we know also that both Henrik and Filip warned Jakob about the danger of opening in the front in the Olympics -wrongly I think, because the pace was the problem) but this doesn’t make a difference:
I think both of the brothers might have seen 36 hours as too little rest. And I also think they might have feared a blowing up in the last k (because of a WR pace and too little preparation), and even some danger of injuries. So yes, they may have warned Jakob. But that doesn’t mean they didn’t have hope for him; they might just have seen this hope to be better later in the fall…
His brothers thought what? Copenhagen wasn’t an Olympic race and there wasn’t anything to lose. Anyone familiar with the sport, including Ingebrigtsen, knows that trying to win the Paris 1500m was very risky, and he didn’t need to hear it from his brothers.
I don't care. But how many 88 year olds can run a dozen marathons, as he has? And he had no trouble finishing and didn't have to stop and walk, as Ingebrigtsen did in an event half the distance.
You don't care about facts you presented? Ridiculous example anyway.
Wrong. Two motivations: 1. he wanted to see what he could do; 2. $
No. He has said it was his "best" distance. He thought he could be competitive. He didn't enter to walk and finish 34th just for a check.
Yes. It may be his best distance once he trains for it. He thought he could be competitive with non-specific training. He was wrong. That's all we know.
I guess we have to disagree whether the experience he wanted to learn was to run a controlled 60-61 minutes later in the fall, or how it is to run with the "big guys", even if only for 10K or so.
No one said it was random. There may be other reasons, like being close to home, and/or running it that weekend so it doesn't screw up recovery or preparation for the next thing (e.g. cross country and 2025).
I wouldn't read too much into the results for a race that was not the Olympics or Diamond League, at the end of a long season focused on 1500m on the track. His result was a realistic expectation, given the lack of specific preparation.
He didn't say he lacked specific preparation. So you know better than he what his training should be?
Apparently he had to say it for you, and only you, to understand it.
No. He has said it was his "best" distance. He thought he could be competitive. He didn't enter to walk and finish 34th just for a check.
Yes. It may be his best distance once he trains for it. He thought he could be competitive with non-specific training. He was wrong. That's all we know.
We also don’t know whether he’s already training effectively for the longer distances. It takes maximum endurance to run 7:17.55, so I think he is.
