2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

good job on hm pb :)

Nice job! Glad to see you back.

Glad to see you have done better with out the charlatan jS.

Nice half time trial! I'm excited to follow this journey again. Last fall was fun, and this should prove to be a nice contrast in training styles.

JS is a pure fraud wrote:

Glad to see you have done better with out the charlatan jS.

Well......you can call me things, but running a half in 1:08:33 had already been done in his marathon if it only was a question of running a half.up to the fact Phil passed on 10 k at 32:38 and then eased off and passed on half in 1:10 .

I coached him after 10 years delay to run a new PB at 10 miles and some 5 k solo wins in 15 min .

What we never will know is what would have happened if I still was in charge.

What I believe and are convinced of would have happened I think everybody can guess .......

Still Phil`s anaerobic and aerobic capacity are far from being perfect synchronized .

I wish Phil all the best on his own and I just loved to coach him. I`m sure he will reach his goal 2:19 ( 2:20 ) at the marathon. Good luck Phil! :)

- The Wizard -

I searched for this thread recently but couldn’t find it.

Good to hear you’re doing well!

Go PHIL! Love to see this thread kick started again.

Nice work on the HM TT. You'd definitely run at least a minute faster in a real race with competition.

Why only selective high mileage? Do you work more than 60 hours a week?

Unless you're an I banker in NYC working bonkers hours I'm pretty sure you could squeeze in 12-13 hours of running per week (90-100 miles)

Rhodium Nights wrote:

Go PHIL! Love to see this thread kick started again.

Nice work on the HM TT. You'd definitely run at least a minute faster in a real race with competition.

Why only selective high mileage? Do you work more than 60 hours a week?

Unless you're an I banker in NYC working bonkers hours I'm pretty sure you could squeeze in 12-13 hours of running per week (90-100 miles)

I work 50-60 hrs a week. 7am-5pm. I wake up and run before work everyday. I also have a 1 yr old and 3 yr old which my wife stays home with. If I was single and had no other responsibilities, I’d most likely run that mileage. I ran the high mileage while on vacation...the rest of the family wasn’t overly pleased with that...

I see......gotta keep the fam happy!

Which race are you targeting this fall?

I think Columbus is a good bet to go ahead. Cases are way down in OH, late October, perfect weather, fast course

The hope has always been twin cities. It’s hard to imagine anything fun happening in Minneapolis anytime soon though. Im just going to train for something in October and see how everything plays out.

good luck! great to see you training again. may we meet at the 2024 trials

Below Average wrote:

The hope has always been twin cities. It’s hard to imagine anything fun happening in Minneapolis anytime soon though. Im just going to train for something in October and see how everything plays out.

Eh, a lot can change in 4 months. That is a LOT of time.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Minneapolis for some time, but I'm guessing that race is close to you so the convenience is a big draw.

I saw the half TT on strava nice work! I was a fan of the original 2:19 buildup, glad to see you posting again.

What have you been looking at to craft your current training design?

thebulljames wrote:

What have you been looking at to craft your current training design?

Sorry for the long post, but mainly past experience, past coaches, ideas from a friend who struggles to break 5 min pace for a 5k but has enough endurance to run 5:05 pace for the 1/2, and developing a love for threshold workouts the last two years.

My college coach had us run 20-25 min threshold runs at 5:15-5:20 pace almost weekly. We always used to kind of roll our eyes about it, but looking back we had a lot of success with it. After college I felt like I always had to do more and more to get better and I think it led to a lot of over training.

After CIM I was looking at old training logs. I realized that before my first 10k in college all I did was 70-80 miles a week of easy running and 3 20 min tempo runs at around 5:20 pace and ran 31:05. I figured I should get back to that and now I try to do one every 2 weeks.

I also really liked a lot about what I was doing with J.S. I loved the routine and consistency of it. I think it was just very intense for my current lifestyle and fitness level. Workouts at 5am before a 10 hr work day were just brutal. I had the idea that if I just spread out some of what I was doing in 6-8 days over 14 days I could save all my hard efforts for my days off and it would be more sustainable.

Week 1 I do 40-60 min of long sub threshold intervals (4x10min for example). Goal of this is to get extra volume at a decent pace without going to the well. Then 6-8 miles of threshold intervals (800m-1600). Week 2 is a 20-25min threshold run and either an easy long run, or long run with 50-60min at sub threshold pace or about current marathon effort. I’ve basically done this over and over since last December unless I have a race.

I decided to cut my vo2 work back probably 80% or more. I pretty much only do it 7-10 days out from a bigger race. I may not have a huge peak, but I figure I can just keep building and building since I never do anything overly intense. I’m trying to run 4:55-5:15 pace for my races so I figure I’m plenty fast, just gotta be able to sustain it.

Lastly my friend who I could beat by 30 sec in the 5k, but ran 4 minutes faster than me in the 1/2 and 11 minutes faster in the marathon last year, had the idea of the strategic high mileage. The sporadic 100 mile weeks and sub threshold long runs were his idea, as well as the mindset that it’s not possible to run my easy runs too easy.

That sounds very reasonable B A. Wish you good luck! I think you're on the right track with the emphasis on threshold. This is a very effective way to build your endurance without overstressing your body. A little bit of VO2max here and there and you're good to go. Running is simple.

Looks good Phil. I understand and agree your tough working schedule and family obligations makes it tough for you to compress everything needed in just one week for you. A good choice to extend the "week" for you.

I myself will take on the coaching of myself to try for some masters world records........and another more fantastic project , to coach one of the worlds greatest runners! Got final agreement today.:)

Good luck with your running and life Phil, it was a pleasure to coach you. :)

- The Wizard -

Below Average - loved what you posted in your comeback. Updates?

Wow, this is a long lasting thread. Can't read it all, but, yes, it's possible to run 2:19 with your talent level and 70-75mpw. The trick is to run like you are a 100-120mpw runner for 2-3 days a week, and a 50mpw the other. Plus the occasional 90-110 mile week in your build up by adding a few doubles and more slow running.

Then you have to train like a marathoner. Not like a 5-10k guy like you did in college. More long hard runs. Less shorter tempo work (but do keep your speed up with strides). (I'll be honest, I don't know exactly what that looks like, but I do know that US marathoners were better 30 years ago, in general, than we have been recently. Last year being the only exception. I think it's because they trained different 30 years ago, which gave less success on the track, but more for the marathon....but I could be wrong. Maybe they were better because they could dream of olympic success:)