7:17.55! Jakob Ingebrigtsen DESTROYS 3000m WR

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

For the first time you give a little bit to the assumption that it probably wasn’t totally random that Jakob chose that exact HM that he chose. But the rest of your narrative also here is in my opinion not as probable as the alternatives:

If one of Jakob’s reasons for racing was to get a learning experience (which seems probable also in my view) I think he would have been better off choosing another race or at least another pace, because what he learned now was only that he sucked both in the 10k and the HM, and not how to run the HM! And since Jakob isn’t stupid (but only maybe very deluded) he (as everyone else) didn’t have to run an all out first 10k to know that that’s not the way to run a HM -that’s a given even if one is very deluded about one’s own shape…

If Jakob’s main goal had been to collect experience he wouldn’t run against the big guys, which he should have known he couldn’t follow even to half run mark. No, he would have chosen a low key race later in the fall, fully rested, and with more mileage in his body, and with an approach that wouldn’t have ruined his reputation and made him look like a complete fool. And he could have run the race in various paces to get experience, and not the hellish experience that is a given when you go all out…

We don’t know what was “swirling ” around in Jakob’s head when he attended Copenhagen, and when he f.x was at the 8k mark. -He must have known that the pace was killing him (despite a slower pace than expected -Jakob clearly was in a very bad 10k shape) -but he clearly chose a 10k NR when every other options were denigrating. Initially the option in his head might have been: 1. Winning, if lucky. 2. Setting a WR if lucky. 3. Running a fast time if unrealistic to follow the Africans. 4. Breaking the European record. 5. Running faster than Mo Farah’s pb. 6. Breaking the NR (59.48). 7. Running sub 61. 8. Not being totally gassed at the 10k mark -letting the big guys go away; concentrating on getting experience by varying the pace in the 11k reminding distance, and getting a decent finish time (one, two or three minutes behind Kiplimo/Sawe). Running an all out 10k opening and then walk/ run swaying through hell, hardly was an intentionally option here -just to experience that one was deluded both in the 10k and HM…

rekrunner wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

The endless repetitious excuses here don't change the facts. He ran a mediocre 10k time - it wasn't world class - en route to a poor HM result - he finished 34th and his time was slower than the women's record. (It was also slower than what Kerr has run, and he has never claimed to be a "HM man".)

The excuses amount to little more than saying he was a) tired after a long season and b) he wasn't trained for the distance. If that is so then no professional athlete would choose to enter under such conditions. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose. But as to the first point - he was tired - he himself hasn't said that and those who easily beat him had similarly endured a long competitive season, while also competing in longer and more demanding events. If he hadn't recovered from his last DL race he wouldn't have competed in such a challenging race. As to his training - he believes it suits any distance and has said so. No one outside the apologists on this board has prattled on to try to put a gloss on what was a failure for an athlete of his standing. He has simply shown he badly misjudged his capacity. He tried to go with the leaders but couldn't and blew up. The HM is not and will not be his "best" distance.

Nobody said it was world class, but rather national class. It would be the record in most nations.

No one said he was tired, including Jakob -- that was you building a strawman.

Jakob gave pre-race "excuses" giving clear indications about what to expect. Why wouldn't he jump into an unimportant off-distance race after the end of his season? Jakob told us he was looking forward to this first test and excited to see if he could finish. After all, there was nothing to lose after the Olympics and Diamond League were finished.

It's too early for me to say if HM will be his best distance. We won't know until he tries.

LarsL11 wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

The endless repetitious excuses here don't change the facts. He ran a mediocre 10k time - it wasn't world class - en route to a poor HM result - he finished 34th and his time was slower than the women's record. (It was also slower than what Kerr has run, and he has never claimed to be a "HM man".)

The excuses amount to little more than saying he was a) tired after a long season and b) he wasn't trained for the distance. If that is so then no professional athlete would choose to enter under such conditions. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose. But as to the first point - he was tired - he himself hasn't said that and those who easily beat him had similarly endured a long competitive season, while also competing in longer and more demanding events. If he hadn't recovered from his last DL race he wouldn't have competed in such a challenging race. As to his training - he believes it suits any distance and has said so. No one outside the apologists on this board has prattled on to try to put a gloss on what was a failure for an athlete of his standing. He has simply shown he badly misjudged his capacity. He tried to go with the leaders but couldn't and blew up. The HM is not and will not be his "best" distance.

Took the legendary 3000m WR though.

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

The endless repetitious excuses here don't change the facts. He ran a mediocre 10k time - it wasn't world class - en route to a poor HM result - he finished 34th and his time was slower than the women's record. (It was also slower than what Kerr has run, and he has never claimed to be a "HM man".)

The excuses amount to little more than saying he was a) tired after a long season and b) he wasn't trained for the distance. If that is so then no professional athlete would choose to enter under such conditions. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose. But as to the first point - he was tired - he himself hasn't said that and those who easily beat him had similarly endured a long competitive season, while also competing in longer and more demanding events. If he hadn't recovered from his last DL race he wouldn't have competed in such a challenging race. As to his training - he believes it suits any distance and has said so. No one outside the apologists on this board has prattled on to try to put a gloss on what was a failure for an athlete of his standing. He has simply shown he badly misjudged his capacity. He tried to go with the leaders but couldn't and blew up. The HM is not and will not be his "best" distance.

I think even Jakob in retrospective will give you a thumbs up for a lot of the things you are saying here.

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Nobody said it was world class, but rather national class. It would be the record in most nations.

No one said he was tired, including Jakob -- that was you building a strawman.

Jakob gave pre-race "excuses" giving clear indications about what to expect. Why wouldn't he jump into an unimportant off-distance race after the end of his season? Jakob told us he was looking forward to this first test and excited to see if he could finish. After all, there was nothing to lose after the Olympics and Diamond League were finished.

It's too early for me to say if HM will be his best distance. We won't know until he tries.

This was not an unimportant off-distance race -it was Jakob’s first in the distance he for a long time has claimed is his best. And he chose the most hyped HM in the season, with the record holder, and the world champ together with the best pacer ever. And Jakob chose this race despite having only 36 hours of rest -clearly it was important for him to be in this race (that he knew was set up for WR pace, and not a better suited, random one in a month or two..)

Jakob’s brother Filip, who now officially is Jakob’s coach, said at racing day: “Everybody gets nervous when Jakob is on the starting line!” And he did not add: But of course he has no chance to follow the big guys in their WR pace.

Why didn’t Filip add this sentence I proposed? -Clearly because he and Jakob had a hope..!

Jakob could have chosen a random low key race some time later instead, and stressed that he f.ex would try to do a not all out race, but a progressive one in f.x 61 flat, to gain experience, and to see if he needs to change anything in his training for HM. But I don’t think he ever has had a thought like that; I think he seriously has thought that HM is his best event based on his overall training…

The following would have been fun: Jakob apologising for his disrespect for the distance, and to his so much better competitors , and some words about trying to come back to the event in some years, with a far better and more realistic approach..!

u89iu wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Still doesn't make him any faster. Until he does it he is only a 12:48 guy.

Absolutely typical Armstrong-issue.

Ingebrigtsen hasn't set a 5000m PB in the last three seasons (in fact he "became slower and slower" any season). This extremely easy to check fact - which probably anybody who reads such threads already knows - was repeated by Armstrong dozens and dozens of times (yes, he can do this - what's the benefit?).
Many people have confronted him with the also easy to check fact that he hasn't tried to run a fast time in those three seasons.
He has tried to ridicule this again and again (for ex. on page 52 in this thread).
He finally now has accepted it to be true. Just agreeing to it? Impossible for him. He imediately has to change the subject.

With a mature person with some interest in the subject, this discussion would be something like:
A. he hasn_t set a 5000m PB in three years.

B. That's true, but - apart from some early season low-kee meet - he has just raced the distance at championships with o intention of a fast time.

C. OK. How fast could he have run if he tried to achieve a fast time?

B. Difficult. because of his 7:17.55 I would say at least 12:40.

D. I disagree. See, his HM was really not so good. And therefore...

E. But why hasn't he done any 5000m DL?

...

Something like this.

Not so when Armstrong is involved.

rekrunner wrote:

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

This was not an unimportant off-distance race -it was Jakob’s first in the distance he for a long time has claimed is his best. And he chose the most hyped HM in the season, with the record holder, and the world champ together with the best pacer ever. And Jakob chose this race despite having only 36 hours of rest -clearly it was important for him to be in this race (that he knew was set up for WR pace, and not a better suited, random one in a month or two..)

Jakob’s brother Filip, who now officially is Jakob’s coach, said at racing day: “Everybody gets nervous when Jakob is on the starting line!” And he did not add: But of course he has no chance to follow the big guys in their WR pace.

Why didn’t Filip add this sentence I proposed? -Clearly because he and Jakob had a hope..!

Jakob could have chosen a random low key race some time later instead, and stressed that he f.ex would try to do a not all out race, but a progressive one in f.x 61 flat, to gain experience, and to see if he needs to change anything in his training for HM. But I don’t think he ever has had a thought like that; I think he seriously has thought that HM is his best event based on his overall training…

The following would have been fun: Jakob apologising for his disrespect for the distance, and to his so much better competitors , and some words about trying to come back to the event in some years, with a far better and more realistic approach..!

Two words: "normally" and "but".

In context: "Normally this is a distance that would suit my training very well but after a long season on the track working towards the 1500m ..."

Normally your comments would make sense, but Jakob prebutted them.