Ha ha -maybe not. Nordås’ November 16th 27.31 is now listed as NR, whereas Jakob’s September 15th 27.27 is not.
Presumably because the 10K mark is more than 5K away from the start (or so it appears on the map). The course would also have to have a certified 10K mark (and an official time measurement at said mark) not just the certified half marathon distance.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is what mental illness looks like. 71 year old man posting 12 times, for 35 minutes straight, about a runner he dislikes, and arguing with several strangers online.
Your problem here is that a statement like this can backfire -people that know one or two things about psychology and psychiatry might think that a poster that “diagnose” another poster as mentally ill, like you do here, based on the grounds you give, and uses this against him, is in fact the one himself who is mentally ill… Well, I’m not among them who automatically concludes this way, because I know our psyches and personalities are complex and not that easy to understand, but I thought this was worth mentioning to you…
Jakob is an unusual athlete, and he dominates track fans’ attention. There is therefore not peculiar at all that a poster that dislikes him still will engage in the debate around him.
I myself engage in athletes, separate from their personalities, or what I might think of those, simply because the running part is interesting. -That doesn’t mean that the personality thing can’t be worth some attention, but I think I can handle two perspectives at the same time…
I root for athletes I don’t necessarily “like” or share common personality or values with. And there are a huge bulk of athletes that I really really like, but that I don’t root for.
I root for the Norwegians, because I’m one myself, and because I think it’s really fun that such a tiny and un significant country can produce so prominent athletes. And in conflicts between Norwegians (athletes) I side with one part, but I still also root for the other one. F.x Narve Gilje Nordås -aside of being a Norwegian he is also extremely exciting because of all the unreleased potential. And the same with Jakob; a huge potential, but so many things that might go both right and wrong. So I’m engaged…
But if you know my profile/user name you can see that I share quite a few traits with Armstronglivs. But I don’t feel mentally ill because of my frequent posting, or all the time I use on LRC. Do you really think doing something in above average engagement is mental illness..?
He’s a 1500/5000m runner and he is not untalented at 5000m. A guy that has won 2 gold medals does not struggle at the distance and there’s no way he’s losing to a 13:05 guy. As his 3000m indicates, he had the potential this year to run his fastest possible 5000m. I don’t know if he could have set a WR, but at least 12:40 was very possible.
We are not necessarily that much in disagreement -1. Of course Jakob is very talented also in the 5000m. But relatively to the 3000m and even the 1500m he might not be.But even if his sweet spot is around f.x 4000m he might break the 5000m WR. And even if he wasn’t that good in the 5000m this year, he might be supreme in a few years (with focus / and training adjustments) -who knows…
2. You are also right about not losing to a 13.05 guy, but Nordås isn’t a regular 13.05 athlete. F.x in his two sub 3.30 races he had the fastest last lap, and in his heat against Gebrhiwet we got a glimpse of what he can do even in a 5000m…
So no response by the Jakob defenders to the point that an 88 year old has the confidence he can regularly "finish" an event twice the distance Ingebrigtsen ran.
So I guess Kenenisa Bekele is inferior to this 88 year old then since he DNF'd so many marathons.... Kipchoge as well, what a loser he couldn't even finish the biggest marathon of his career in Paris. Hobby joggers I tell you!
I think the most important words you are neglecting is "Normally ..." and "but ...". All the old quotes you pull out from other contexts are not as relevant as the statements he made days before the race, where he warned us that it was not going to be normal (as if we needed to be told what to expect from a last minute race at the end of a season he didn't train for).
The reality check isn't something he needs to learn after the race, but something he stated before the race. In another interview, days before the race, he told us:
"But still, it's about being realistic" and
"At my best, and if I'm able to get a chance in many different events, I think I have a good shot of beating many of them, but it takes a lot of time and there's still a lot of work to be done to get there and have the opportunity in all the different ones."
Jakob is not stupid, and I haven’t read any that claims that he thought he could break the HM WR in a last minute entry. But Jakob also knows that sometimes things get better than anticipated, as it did in his 3000m WR. And that coaligns with his sayings about racing a lot, and that one by trying, and taking chances, may end up running fast. No contradiction to his statement about preparing here…
I think you stress too much this HM as a random race, although it in some way was. But I don’t think it was totally random that he picked a WR race, with Sawe and Kiplimo and a supreme pacer…I think Jakob had hopes, and I think he really got something to contemplate!
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Jakob is not stupid, and I haven’t read any that claims that he thought he could break the HM WR in a last minute entry. But Jakob also knows that sometimes things get better than anticipated, as it did in his 3000m WR. And that coaligns with his sayings about racing a lot, and that one by trying, and taking chances, may end up running fast. No contradiction to his statement about preparing here…
I think you stress too much this HM as a random race, although it in some way was. But I don’t think it was totally random that he picked a WR race, with Sawe and Kiplimo and a supreme pacer…I think Jakob had hopes, and I think he really got something to contemplate!
Jakob is not stupid -- he had realistic expectations. He did not express any high hopes.
I do not say Copenhagen was a "random" race. But it was clearly a race at the end of a long season focused on 1500m. The circumstances alone should have tempered all expectations -- Jakob didn't need to say anything.
Ha ha -maybe not. Nordås’ November 16th 27.31 is now listed as NR, whereas Jakob’s September 15th 27.27 is not.
Presumably because the 10K mark is more than 5K away from the start (or so it appears on the map). The course would also have to have a certified 10K mark (and an official time measurement at said mark) not just the certified half marathon distance.
So much for aiming for the NR...
It was stressed in Copenhagen (at the day) that all these things were taken care of, so Jakob might still get the NR. We just have to wait and see…
Jakob is not stupid -- he had realistic expectations. He did not express any high hopes.
I do not say Copenhagen was a "random" race. But it was clearly a race at the end of a long season focused on 1500m. The circumstances alone should have tempered all expectations -- Jakob didn't need to say anything.
I don’t want to sound like an old repetitive grump, so I am looking for something to give you here (also because as a fan I would be delighted to find something positive about Jakob’s distance potential) -a couple of years ago the Norwegian stated that he makes adjustments in his training all the time, and he maybe somewhat alluded to the summer training as the most important arena for such changes. So maybe this tells us that he might have thinned down the training at the expense of the longer distances more than I thought -his unexpected good times (despite long time injury) in the 1500m and even the 3000m (after all much shorter than 5/10k/HM) might also confirm this…
The problem is however this: At the same time (two years ago) Jakob also said that he is so afraid of thinning down his summer training that he always puts in a lot of mileage even then, and that he also is very conservative with speed work. And in the spring (2024) he also said that he had to keep up his mileage longer, because of all the training he missed during the winter. So I don’t know -maybe he did both (mileage and then utterly thinning that made him in crappy 10k shape, and even maybe affected his 5k shape -he wasn’t really contested in the last one, so we really don’t know). Well, Euros xc in 17 days from now will be really exciting..!
Cheptegei's best isn't on the road; Jakob's is. Till he runs faster on the track that remains his best - a minute and 16 secs slower than Cheptegei. Yeah - he would probably be lapped.
You can't compare those times. Jakob has never gone for a 10,000m PB.
He did. At Copenhagen. We know he wasn't running a HM.
No, they don't. They simply point out that some national records don't amount to much. But the actual race was a HM. No national records or anything else there.
He still gets his name added to the record books.
Yep. Like the Kazakhstan record books. Big deal. He didn't run a world class time.
So he was less certain than a hobby jogger as to whether he could finish the race.
Which hobby jogger has had a long season on the track focused on the 1500m, which included 1500m/5000m at the Olympics, and a 1500m Diamond League championship victory, not to mention a World Record at 3000m (what is this thread about again)? Of those few, what have they said about running a half-marathon two days after the Diamond League final that makes you sure they would be more certain than Jakob about finishing such a long race?
I just gave an example of an 88 year old hobby jogger above, who had no trouble finishing a race twice the distance Ingebrigtsen ran.
You talk as though Ingebrigtsen crawled out of the ****ing desert to run a HM. Pathetic.
You have to see the context here -when Nordås just did 27.31 it obviously wasn’t “really really bad”, but not as good as I think his potential is (this year). So my guesses is that he can do at least 15 sec faster with better preparation and an all out effort…Not bad for a guy who primarily dreams about the 1500m.
When it comes to Jakob it’s more complicated -yes, just like Nordås he wasn’t fully prepared for the 10k or the HM, so he can clearly run faster. But he is so far behind the top guys that he either needs to improve drastically to race the long events now, or just drop them until he is in a situation where he can focus on the right kind of training / preparation. Jakob fighting for the lesser medals even in Euros isn’t the right priority in my view. But maybe he is being saved by course reductions from 10k to 7.3k..?
Jakob doesn’t reveal every change he does in his training. My hope is that he has changed his summer training (without being very open about it) on the expense of 5/10k/HM strength, and that he later can find this strength. For now (and I will of course get a lot of down votes for this) he even might be regarded as a guy that struggles in the 5000m, seemingly because of lack of talent for the distance, but maybe only because of too thin summer training (maybe also because of his winter injury ). Yes, he has won three global clown races in the event against very light opposition, but was very lucky he didn’t lose against Nordås in the Nationals, that he probably would have done, if not his compatriot had front run almost the whole race in the wind (in order to help his other team mate achieve a qualifying mark). So under the right circumstances Jakob is very much capable of losing to a 13.05 guy. That’s how vulnerable he is in a distance he maybe doesn’t prioritises enough, under the right circumstances (that of course includes only 12.5 hours rest after an all out 1500m, and a Norwegian opponent that is totally unpredictable and extremely dangerous the few times he gets it right).
Can Jakob break the WR in the 5000m despite my remarks above? Sure, who knows what a change in training / focus can bring.. But for now I see no indications of a WR capability what so ever; both in the 5000/10000m he seems vulnerable to be smashed once he meets a good enough competitor in peak shape…
He’s a 1500/5000m runner and he is not untalented at 5000m. A guy that has won 2 gold medals does not struggle at the distance and there’s no way he’s losing to a 13:05 guy. As his 3000m indicates, he had the potential this year to run his fastest possible 5000m. I don’t know if he could have set a WR, but at least 12:40 was very possible.
Whereas you aren't. The point is that it isn't a credible claim. He simply hasn't run any faster in 3 years.
If you like it or if you don't like it: Apart from an early season low key meeting, he hasn’t raced the 5000m with the aim to get a good time in the last three seasons. Hi did only championship races (1x nat, 2x eur, 2x wor, 1x oly) with the only aim to win. He won all of them.
Still doesn't make him any faster. Until he does it he is only a 12:48 guy.
So no response by the Jakob defenders to the point that an 88 year old has the confidence he can regularly "finish" an event twice the distance Ingebrigtsen ran.
So I guess Kenenisa Bekele is inferior to this 88 year old then since he DNF'd so many marathons.... Kipchoge as well, what a loser he couldn't even finish the biggest marathon of his career in Paris. Hobby joggers I tell you!
How many marathons did they begin with the expectation they wouldn't finish? Rubbish. In Ingebrigtsen's case it was also half the distance. An 88 year old taught him a lesson about judging your capacity.
Which hobby jogger has had a long season on the track focused on the 1500m, which included 1500m/5000m at the Olympics, and a 1500m Diamond League championship victory, not to mention a World Record at 3000m (what is this thread about again)? Of those few, what have they said about running a half-marathon two days after the Diamond League final that makes you sure they would be more certain than Jakob about finishing such a long race?
I just gave an example of an 88 year old hobby jogger above, who had no trouble finishing a race twice the distance Ingebrigtsen ran.
You talk as though Ingebrigtsen crawled out of the ****ing desert to run a HM. Pathetic.
I don’t want to sound like an old repetitive grump, so I am looking for something to give you here (also because as a fan I would be delighted to find something positive about Jakob’s distance potential) -a couple of years ago the Norwegian stated that he makes adjustments in his training all the time, and he maybe somewhat alluded to the summer training as the most important arena for such changes. So maybe this tells us that he might have thinned down the training at the expense of the longer distances more than I thought -his unexpected good times (despite long time injury) in the 1500m and even the 3000m (after all much shorter than 5/10k/HM) might also confirm this…
The problem is however this: At the same time (two years ago) Jakob also said that he is so afraid of thinning down his summer training that he always puts in a lot of mileage even then, and that he also is very conservative with speed work. And in the spring (2024) he also said that he had to keep up his mileage longer, because of all the training he missed during the winter. So I don’t know -maybe he did both (mileage and then utterly thinning that made him in crappy 10k shape, and even maybe affected his 5k shape -he wasn’t really contested in the last one, so we really don’t know). Well, Euros xc in 17 days from now will be really exciting..!
Do you have nothing newer for me? I gave you quotes hot of the press.
I was not talking about just training, but a long season of racing on the track, focused on much shorter distances.
You may doubt or hope for potential at longer distances, but Copenhagen is not the race to consider one way or the other.