He misjudged the pace by overestimating his capacity on the day. So?
You miss the point. A "misjudgment" by a professional isn't like the complete lack of realism a hobby jogger might show (most of whom actually manage to finish).
It happens all the time in road racing. Or like Cheptegei in world cross country.
So no response by the Jakob defenders to the point that an 88 year old has the confidence he can regularly "finish" an event twice the distance Ingebrigtsen ran.
Cheptegei has run 26:11 on the track. So far Ingebrigtsen hasn't run faster than 27:27 for the distance (and as the women have shown, the roads aren't necessarily slower than the track).
Cheptegei has run 26:11 on the track. So far Ingebrigtsen hasn't run faster than 27:27 for the distance (and as the women have shown, the roads aren't necessarily slower than the track).
Cheptegei ran 26:53 on the roads. Jakob ran 27:27 on the roads.
You miss the point. A "misjudgment" by a professional isn't like the complete lack of realism a hobby jogger might show (most of whom actually manage to finish).
It happens all the time in road racing. Or like Cheptegei in world cross country.
You continue to confuse misjudgment by a professional, which is a mistake, with a complete blunder or lack of realism.
Cheptegei has run 26:11 on the track. So far Ingebrigtsen hasn't run faster than 27:27 for the distance (and as the women have shown, the roads aren't necessarily slower than the track).
Cheptegei ran 26:53 on the roads. Jakob ran 27:27 on the roads.
Cheptegei's best isn't on the road; Jakob's is. Till he runs faster on the track that remains his best - a minute and 16 secs slower than Cheptegei. Yeah - he would probably be lapped.
Cheptegei ran 26:53 on the roads. Jakob ran 27:27 on the roads.
Cheptegei's best isn't on the road; Jakob's is. Till he runs faster on the track that remains his best - a minute and 16 secs slower than Cheptegei. Yeah - he would probably be lapped.
You can't compare those times. Jakob has never gone for a 10,000m PB.
You have to see the context here -when Nordås just did 27.31 it obviously wasn’t “really really bad”, but not as good as I think his potential is (this year). So my guesses is that he can do at least 15 sec faster with better preparation and an all out effort…Not bad for a guy who primarily dreams about the 1500m.
When it comes to Jakob it’s more complicated -yes, just like Nordås he wasn’t fully prepared for the 10k or the HM, so he can clearly run faster. But he is so far behind the top guys that he either needs to improve drastically to race the long events now, or just drop them until he is in a situation where he can focus on the right kind of training / preparation. Jakob fighting for the lesser medals even in Euros isn’t the right priority in my view. But maybe he is being saved by course reductions from 10k to 7.3k..?
Jakob doesn’t reveal every change he does in his training. My hope is that he has changed his summer training (without being very open about it) on the expense of 5/10k/HM strength, and that he later can find this strength. For now (and I will of course get a lot of down votes for this) he even might be regarded as a guy that struggles in the 5000m, seemingly because of lack of talent for the distance, but maybe only because of too thin summer training (maybe also because of his winter injury ). Yes, he has won three global clown races in the event against very light opposition, but was very lucky he didn’t lose against Nordås in the Nationals, that he probably would have done, if not his compatriot had front run almost the whole race in the wind (in order to help his other team mate achieve a qualifying mark). So under the right circumstances Jakob is very much capable of losing to a 13.05 guy. That’s how vulnerable he is in a distance he maybe doesn’t prioritises enough, under the right circumstances (that of course includes only 12.5 hours rest after an all out 1500m, and a Norwegian opponent that is totally unpredictable and extremely dangerous the few times he gets it right).
Can Jakob break the WR in the 5000m despite my remarks above? Sure, who knows what a change in training / focus can bring.. But for now I see no indications of a WR capability what so ever; both in the 5000/10000m he seems vulnerable to be smashed once he meets a good enough competitor in peak shape…
You are still trying to judge this race as if it was a normal race for him. I don't agree. Jakob doesn't agree. I have told you several times your attempts at reasoned analysis are nonsense, and you keep making the same mistake again and again, coming back with, "yeah but ...".
Here is the only context I have to see:
"I'm looking forward to test myself in the half-marathon for the first time, in Copenhagen."
"Normally this is a distance that would suit my training very well but after a long season on the track working towards the 1500m, it’s exciting to see if I even can reach the finish line!
Yes. Whenever someone sets a national record, everyone agrees it is "really really bad".
No, they don't. They simply point out that some national records don't amount to much. But the actual race was a HM. No national records or anything else there.
So he was less certain than a hobby jogger as to whether he could finish the race.
Which hobby jogger has had a long season on the track focused on the 1500m, which included 1500m/5000m at the Olympics, and a 1500m Diamond League championship victory, not to mention a World Record at 3000m (what is this thread about again)? Of those few, what have they said about running a half-marathon two days after the Diamond League final that makes you sure they would be more certain than Jakob about finishing such a long race?
Yes. Whenever someone sets a national record, everyone agrees it is "really really bad".
You have to see the context here -when Nordås just did 27.31 it obviously wasn’t “really really bad”, but not as good as I think his potential is (this year). So my guesses is that he can do at least 15 sec faster with better preparation and an all out effort…Not bad for a guy who primarily dreams about the 1500m.
When it comes to Jakob it’s more complicated -yes, just like Nordås he wasn’t fully prepared for the 10k or the HM, so he can clearly run faster. But he is so far behind the top guys that he either needs to improve drastically to race the long events now, or just drop them until he is in a situation where he can focus on the right kind of training / preparation. Jakob fighting for the lesser medals even in Euros isn’t the right priority in my view. But maybe he is being saved by course reductions from 10k to 7.3k..?
Jakob doesn’t reveal every change he does in his training. My hope is that he has changed his summer training (without being very open about it) on the expense of 5/10k/HM strength, and that he later can find this strength. For now (and I will of course get a lot of down votes for this) he even might be regarded as a guy that struggles in the 5000m, seemingly because of lack of talent for the distance, but maybe only because of too thin summer training (maybe also because of his winter injury ). Yes, he has won three global clown races in the event against very light opposition, but was very lucky he didn’t lose against Nordås in the Nationals, that he probably would have done, if not his compatriot had front run almost the whole race in the wind (in order to help his other team mate achieve a qualifying mark). So under the right circumstances Jakob is very much capable of losing to a 13.05 guy. That’s how vulnerable he is in a distance he maybe doesn’t prioritises enough, under the right circumstances (that of course includes only 12.5 hours rest after an all out 1500m, and a Norwegian opponent that is totally unpredictable and extremely dangerous the few times he gets it right).
Can Jakob break the WR in the 5000m despite my remarks above? Sure, who knows what a change in training / focus can bring.. But for now I see no indications of a WR capability what so ever; both in the 5000/10000m he seems vulnerable to be smashed once he meets a good enough competitor in peak shape…
He’s a 1500/5000m runner and he is not untalented at 5000m. A guy that has won 2 gold medals does not struggle at the distance and there’s no way he’s losing to a 13:05 guy. As his 3000m indicates, he had the potential this year to run his fastest possible 5000m. I don’t know if he could have set a WR, but at least 12:40 was very possible.
You are still trying to judge this race as if it was a normal race for him. I don't agree. Jakob doesn't agree. I have told you several times your attempts at reasoned analysis are nonsense, and you keep making the same mistake again and again, coming back with, "yeah but ...".
Here is the only context I have to see:
"I'm looking forward to test myself in the half-marathon for the first time, in Copenhagen."
"Normally this is a distance that would suit my training very well but after a long season on the track working towards the 1500m, it’s exciting to see if I even can reach the finish line!
You keep repeating this as it was the only thing he has been saying (repeatedly). But he has also said “I always run for the win”. But nothing in your two citations here is controversial, except for the interpretation of the 12 last words. And there you haven’t met my thought: “it’s exciting to see if I even can reach the finish line!” meaning: 1. It’s generally smart to lower the expectations here, because given the circumstances I can’t be certain of the out come. 2. If I go with the others in WR pace, which I probably will do as long as I can, and probably very close to the finish line, given HM is ideally my best event, I MIGHT blow up so seriously f.x 1 km from the finish line that I even might struggle to finish.
But to repeat my self: When an athlete has no idea about what he can do in an event (HM) based on races or training tests, and he is generally very cocky in some situations, and he strongly thinks the training he has been doing for years is best suited for that event, yes then he might think he might get lucky, having a good day, despite not ideally preparations, and being drafted to an excellent time and performance… But he really really wasn’t, and that should be a reality check, unless he was unwell, which he hasn’t claimed.
Whereas you aren't. The point is that it isn't a credible claim. He simply hasn't run any faster in 3 years.
If you like it or if you don't like it: Apart from an early season low key meeting, he hasn’t raced the 5000m with the aim to get a good time in the last three seasons. Hi did only championship races (1x nat, 2x eur, 2x wor, 1x oly) with the only aim to win. He won all of them.
Ha ha -maybe not. Nordås’ November 16th 27.31 is now listed as NR, whereas Jakob’s September 15th 27.27 is not.
Friidrett1 -Norways most informed site writes that there might be a problem with the certification of Jakob’s 10k time, but the site doesn’t know why… I personally don’t care; relatively to Jakob’s other pb’s (always when I write bad about Jakob’s performances it’s only a relative term -to his other achievements) this time is a hobby jogger one, and I’m sure he and Nordås handily break it later some time…
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Whereas you aren't. The point is that it isn't a credible claim. He simply hasn't run any faster in 3 years.
If you like it or if you don't like it: Apart from an early season low key meeting, he hasn’t raced the 5000m with the aim to get a good time in the last three seasons. Hi did only championship races (1x nat, 2x eur, 2x wor, 1x oly) with the only aim to win. He won all of them.
You might speculate for the reason for this (lacyness, he knew 13:00 is his limit, likes Cheptegei too much to break his record, whatever). That he didn't race for time is a fact.
You keep repeating this as it was the only thing he has been saying (repeatedly). But he has also said “I always run for the win”. But nothing in your two citations here is controversial, except for the interpretation of the 12 last words. And there you haven’t met my thought: “it’s exciting to see if I even can reach the finish line!” meaning: 1. It’s generally smart to lower the expectations here, because given the circumstances I can’t be certain of the out come. 2. If I go with the others in WR pace, which I probably will do as long as I can, and probably very close to the finish line, given HM is ideally my best event, I MIGHT blow up so seriously f.x 1 km from the finish line that I even might struggle to finish.
But to repeat my self: When an athlete has no idea about what he can do in an event (HM) based on races or training tests, and he is generally very cocky in some situations, and he strongly thinks the training he has been doing for years is best suited for that event, yes then he might think he might get lucky, having a good day, despite not ideally preparations, and being drafted to an excellent time and performance… But he really really wasn’t, and that should be a reality check, unless he was unwell, which he hasn’t claimed.
I think the most important words you are neglecting is "Normally ..." and "but ...". All the old quotes you pull out from other contexts are not as relevant as the statements he made days before the race, where he warned us that it was not going to be normal (as if we needed to be told what to expect from a last minute race at the end of a season he didn't train for).
The reality check isn't something he needs to learn after the race, but something he stated before the race. In another interview, days before the race, he told us:
"But still, it's about being realistic" and
"At my best, and if I'm able to get a chance in many different events, I think I have a good shot of beating many of them, but it takes a lot of time and there's still a lot of work to be done to get there and have the opportunity in all the different ones."