internalized results wrote:
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
My fastest marathoner is 2:07 , does that make any difference to you?
From which country?
Does it really matter which country if the runner is a 2:07 marathoner done it on what we use to call low mileage training ( less then 100 mpw)?
Kenya mzungu wrote:
WTF talking about wrote:
Do you know why your fastest runner won't be able to compete with the top Kenyans, and Ethiopians? Hint: Haile Gebrselassie ran 10k to school and back growing up. These kids are building up a huge aerobic base while Western kids are sitting on their ass. I wonder why westerners suck.
Nowadays you seldom see kids running around the roads in Kenya to school.They are not supreme western kids when it comes to aerobic base . But most of them ( Kalenjin and Masai)starts to train running early and there are hundreds of thousands of them who wants to be a new Kipchoge or Rudisha.
Well, it's at least happening to the best of them:
Rhonex Kipruto:
As a kid, that’s what I did on my journey to school every day. It was 4-5km away, and I would always come home for lunch, so I covered that distance four times a day, carrying my school books on my back.
But it wasn’t serious training, never about going a certain speed; it was just running – slowly.
No less than 20 kilometres a day, and about 140 kilometres every week.
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
internalized results wrote:
From which country?
Does it really matter which country if the runner is a 2:07 marathoner done it on what we use to call low mileage training ( less then 100 mpw)?
Yes, because I don't know how he grew up and I would also like pass training history. That is a rough outline of what he was doing before you and his progress since than.
OlympicRunningTeamCoach wrote:
Why do you believe so much in "junk miles"? Why would you take the risk of injuries and killing your anaerobic system with to much mileage when it is not needed to do so? The only athletes that really need high mileage are Topmarathonrunners or topathletes with really high VlaMax (strong anaerobic system) to come to a relative balance with their aerobic system.
I am coaching some of these types that are really strong by nature anaerobicaly and they need higher mileage (read average around 75miles ) to come to a balance where their aerobic system is strong enough to support their anaerobic capabilities. But what people tend to forget is that is not all about mileage it is also about what kind of mileage you do. Their are several ways to come to a balance and the "short" way is to go via aerobic powertraining, however in the long term with this kind of training your aerobic capacity will only get worser the more you do it on a long period of time.
Hehe! I think most readers here on LRC starts to think it must be me "trolling again" when they read what this Belgian coach has to say. It sounds almost exactly as if I had written it. If you ORTC coach would like to stay in touch I would like it very much. - COACH J.S-
yes it does wrote:
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Does it really matter which country if the runner is a 2:07 marathoner done it on what we use to call low mileage training ( less then 100 mpw)?
Yes, because I don't know how he grew up and I would also like pass training history. That is a rough outline of what he was doing before you and his progress since than.
I only coached him for 2½ months! His former best was 4 years back at the time. That 2:07 is still his standing PR. I think I saw recently a result of 2:17 done by him.
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
yes it does wrote:
Yes, because I don't know how he grew up and I would also like pass training history. That is a rough outline of what he was doing before you and his progress since than.
I only coached him for 2½ months! His former best was 4 years back at the time. That 2:07 is still his standing PR. I think I saw recently a result of 2:17 done by him.
Do you know his training before hand? Also, 2.5 months? Put me in charged of NASA as we land on the moon and I'll claim all the credit for it.
yes it is wrote:
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
I only coached him for 2½ months! His former best was 4 years back at the time. That 2:07 is still his standing PR. I think I saw recently a result of 2:17 done by him.
Do you know his training before hand? Also, 2.5 months? Put me in charged of NASA as we land on the moon and I'll claim all the credit for it.
Yes, I know his training before my coaching and it was nothing different when it comes to mileage.The difference with my coaching of him was that he did the miles more effective than before. And besides this, to land on the moon can go wrong if you don`t know how to do it correctly.
Below Average wrote:
I am not a troll. I started this thread because my performances have stagnated since March despite training well. I was just looking for inspiration from people that have had success running lower mileage. Every Pr I have ever ran has come after training 100+ mile weeks, so I’m certainly not against high mileage.
I was trying to joke around a bit with the personal stuff. I am quite secure with where I am at in life. I do work 50 hrs a week, I won’t say how much I make, but it’s less than $250,000. I do have 2 young children (9 months, 2.5 yrs), and I have a fantastic wife that I love very much. You can’t have pics.
I do believe 100% that I had the talented to run 2:19 when I was 23. I will be 33 for CIM. Admittedly 2:19 now seems like quite a long shot, but I enjoy attacking the day and shooting for things that seem unlikely.
Just stay calm man! Your thread is one of the best I have seen here for a long time, except for some insulting element. Here we learn how to reach individual top performance on just low mileage.
OlympicRunningTeamCoach wrote:
You are right Ekiden is important but believe me they want to have good athletes at the Olympics next year...
And making comparisons with countries is stupid. Belgium only has 1/10 of their population ;).
And it's true they have a lot of runners sub 2.10, but we have 2 (this year) that run sub 2.08, for the moment Japan has 0.0
How much mileage are those sub 2:08 guys doing?
HRE wrote:
OlympicRunningTeamCoach wrote:
You are right Ekiden is important but believe me they want to have good athletes at the Olympics next year...
And making comparisons with countries is stupid. Belgium only has 1/10 of their population ;).
And it's true they have a lot of runners sub 2.10, but we have 2 (this year) that run sub 2.08, for the moment Japan has 0.0
How much mileage are those sub 2:08 guys doing?
We all now that most top marathoners exercise twice a day and 100+ mpw, but it's very fascinating to see it can be done with much less.
see the important thing wrote:
HRE wrote:
How much mileage are those sub 2:08 guys doing?
We all now that most top marathoners exercise twice a day and 100+ mpw, but it's very fascinating to see it can be done with much less.
Agree. That's why I asked. With all the embedded quotes in some responses here I cannot tell if those sub 2:08 guys are only doing 55-60 a week or not.
They are not coached by Tim so he can probably not know. But maybe he has heard or read about it?
lies and dammed lies wrote:
Kenya mzungu wrote:
Nowadays you seldom see kids running around the roads in Kenya to school.They are not supreme western kids when it comes to aerobic base . But most of them ( Kalenjin and Masai)starts to train running early and there are hundreds of thousands of them who wants to be a new Kipchoge or Rudisha.
Well, it's at least happening to the best of them:
Rhonex Kipruto:
https://spikes.iaaf.org/post/rhonex-kipruto-slowly-by-slowly?utm_source=iaaf.org&utm_medium=gridclickAs a kid, that’s what I did on my journey to school every day. It was 4-5km away, and I would always come home for lunch, so I covered that distance four times a day, carrying my school books on my back.
But it wasn’t serious training, never about going a certain speed; it was just running – slowly.
No less than 20 kilometres a day, and about 140 kilometres every week.
Even in Kenya there is not school every day in the week, so 140 k is not possible then. lol
First day on the new program for OP went according to the prescribed pace about 6:40 mile pace. I will report tomorrows
20 x 400m also but then there will be a break for a while.
It can certainly be done. I averaged 76mpw in a 12 week buildup to run 2:15 on a legit course.
I ran 7 times per week, but once a week I had a "long double" where the secondary run of the day was over an hour. So many weeks that allowed me to take a day off. Other than that, the training was pretty standard. One track workout per week, usually 20-24x 200 or 400 with 200 jog rest. One tempo workout of 6-10 miles often broken up with 1' jog. Hard long run every other week, easier (but not easy) long run on the alternate weeks. I was working a lot at the time and didn't feel like there was a great benefit to more mileage.
First I was talking about 2019 (AT it is even more sad to see, since I already have 3 belgians running that fast...).
And Rono run some great times but I am not really impressed if I saw how hard he trained, doesn't seem really efficiënt ;). I coached a 13.04 last year and compared to Rono he did nothing...
And now you can talk about the different shoes and track but that doesn't change the fact that this much quality is not efficiënt at all. Read some science books and you will understand what this amount of quality does with your body...
Well actually I coached the current belgium record holder Bashir last year his 13.04 and towards his debut of 2.10 (he fell down after 200m's so was a *** marathon).
Bashir is now training in the group with Farah and actually they aren't doing crazy things. Average mileage will not be higher than 100 miles a week with some topweeks around 120 miles max. Most of the training is ofc focussed on endurance runs but they also tend to do quiet "a lot" of shorter stuff like 300's/400's around 5K pace.
Koen Naert (2.07 this year) is the "traditional" marathonrunner and currently 1 of the fastest "white athletes" in the world. Koen is averaging much higher mileage than Bashir. Going up to maxweeks of around 150 miles. He does the traditional marathontraining nothing special.
OlympicRunningTeamCoach wrote:
First I was talking about 2019 (AT it is even more sad to see, since I already have 3 belgians running that fast...).
And Rono run some great times but I am not really impressed if I saw how hard he trained, doesn't seem really efficiënt ;). I coached a 13.04 last year and compared to Rono he did nothing...
And now you can talk about the different shoes and track but that doesn't change the fact that this much quality is not efficiënt at all. Read some science books and you will understand what this amount of quality does with your body...
You see Tim.....LRC is a place where most runners and coaches got stuck in the belief that more must be better! It's of course
almost impossible to convince them of the opposite that a more balanced approach is preferable to achieving the same or better results.
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
First day on the new program for OP went according to the prescribed pace about 6:40 mile pace. I will report tomorrows
20 x 400m also but then there will be a break for a while.
The 20 x 400m went exactly as I thought. 71-72 sec per lap and rest down to 120 bpm varied between 41 to 60 sec.
The OP felt great and thought it was easier done than his 20 x 400 at 73 and just 80 m jog rest in 24 sec a couple of weeks before. Now we will let this new way to train sink into his body ,but my former coaching experience tells me the OP will reach his goal , a sub 2:20 marathon on just 45-60 mpw. :)
- COACH J.S -
OlympicRunningTeamCoach wrote:
I am posting some of my training programs in the coming weeks via moriautim (instagram) if you would be interested.
Already posted 1 yesterday of 1 of my 5K runners that ran 13.19 in Stanford this year not doing to much of anything ;).
I am interested to see your training programs, if you could post them on here. Instagram doesn't show up for me for some reason.