Sydney Masciarelli will be better than Katelyn Tuohy

No, double workouts do not reduce someone's ultimate ceiling. There are countless great HS runners that did doubles that went on to have great careers. The risk of too much milage is injuries. I would believe that all elite HS runners enjoy success.

No one is saying that doubles hurt the ceiling when built to appropriately and at the right age.

Basically MS girls can train super hard without risk of burn out, over training or injury. They can do this so much that they actually delay puberty, how do you think puberty goes when it's been delayed?

How do you think their mentality is when they do go through puberty and they aren't even close to their times from a year or two ago?

There has been some great responses in this thread.

For what it's worth I don't think either of these 2 will be that good, but I hope I'm wrong.

Jen Ecks wrote:

[quote]arunnery660 wrote:

I think she studies hard at her prep school too, so I don't really give an athlete a pass because they are taking AP's. /quote]

I'm seeing more and more of this garbage, and it makes me actually hope the worst hysteria about global warming is true and everything goes bonkers in 10+ years. The idea that studying hard exacts a toll similar to, I dunno, trimming trees seems pervasive, and I honestly feel sorry for any generation whose members think using your brain is so taxing that it will sap your running energy. What do you idiots recommend instead, sitting around staring vacantly at walls?

Classwork is like 6th on the list of stresses that might affect high-schoolers' running.

Two options-

-It's not true it's just an excuse

or

-It is true and it's a sign of things to come. If academics are hurting Katelyn's ability to run fast, then how will she handle college? She might be in deep trouble. This proves the original poster's point about Sydney eventually surpassing Katelyn.

re KT, Again hopefully her camp is checking her out for low ferretin. It can look a lot like this. After mile 1 like someone dimmed the lights and cause performance declines. Very common for female and especially young female distance runners.

Maybe they just don't know.

SDSU Aztec wrote: No, double workouts do not reduce someone's ultimate ceiling. There are countless great HS runners that did doubles that went on to have great careers. The risk of too much milage is injuries. I would believe that all elite HS runners enjoy success.

I was specifically referring to middle schoolers.

If I can choose the field over Tuohy or Masciarelli n college, I woukd bet the farm. Nobody would have chosen Schweizer.

smugmug123 wrote:

Sydney did have blistering middle school times. She was the Massachusetts State XC Middle school champ and set a course record in 2016, and was the champ the year prior as well . Brakes were pumped in 9th grade when she played soccer and according to an interview her parent gave to a CT paper scored many goals for her school. She started running in 5th grade according to that article. I wonder though if NCAA championship Notre Dame Hoops Moffat starts calling which she would choose.

According to this article she actually started running middle school XC in the 3rd grade. She was the #3 on the team. By 5th grade she was their #1. Her sister who was a freshman at Hofstra this year and their #1 would have been on that team. So like Tuohy and other top girls she has run a lot of miles.

They are both done. Join Grace Ping. Some 16 year old who is running 5 minutes on 25mpw will be the top collegiate.

Recent rocker wrote:

Wow, you dont know that answer? My 4 year old coild figure that out. But when a runner is afraid to compete, then they should be pushed down in the rankings. Tuohy just became something less than the top runner.

According to your logic anybody that just ran at NBON is better than Touhy.

You are as good as your last race. So finishing 20th isn't better than not running but finishing 1st is better than not running. That's why Tuohy didnt run though is because she knew there would be a few people who don't realize that. Thinking that not running is better than winning is dumb. Tuohy has won her last high profile race.

Unfortunately, many/most teen girls develop an "aversion" to red meat, in large part due to social and media pressure. Their diet becomes primarily high-carb/high-plant/low-nutrient density. The result is the Female Triad. Meat is where not only heme iron is sourced, but bio-appropriate amino acids, fat-soluble vitamins and omega-3's. No amount of syntetic supplementation on a "plant-biased" diet will substitute for the essential nutrients found in meat, fish and eggs.

asdfadsads wrote:

[quote]Zat0pek wrote:

[quote]adfasfdasfasd wrote: I did read your post and noticed that you didn't mention any evidence that your theories have any basis in reality.

You can start with the book Long Term Athlete Development.

Then you can randomly pick any HS graduating class and do several things using readily available results from sites like MileSplit:

(1) look to see who the top, say, 20 girls in the class nationally were when they were freshman, and how those girls were running as seniors;

(2) look up how those top seniors were running as freshman;

(3) using 9 for frosh, 10 for soph, 11 for junior and 12 for senior, calculate the average grade their 1600 and 3200 PRs were set by the top 10 girls in each group (the top 10 as frosh and the top 10 as seniors); and

(4) Count the total number of races run in the first two years of high school.

Middle school results/data are much less accessible, but where possible extend the same analysis back to when that class was in 7th-8th grade to see the really startling patterns.

You’ll find that very few of the top girls when that class were freshman are the top girls as seniors. If you can get sufficient reliable data to extend that back to 7th or 8th grade, you’ll find that the number approaches zero. The exceptions will be the uber-talented who could post great times doing multiple sports and training/racing a fraction of what the others did at that age.

You’ll find that the average grade of HS PR is about 1-1.5 years later for the top senior group than for the top frosh group. Again, even more dramatic if you can get sufficient reliable data to extend it back to 7th or 8th grade.

You’ll find that the top frosh group on average ran considerably more races the first two year in HS than the top senior group did. Again, even more dramatic if you can get sufficient reliable data to extend it back to 7th or 8th grade.

Coorelation certainly does not equal causation, but a deeper analysis will show that more extensive training and, especially, racing loads from 7th-9th grade and the earlier abandonment of multiple sports are the hallmark of girls who top out much earlier rather than continuing to develop and improve on in to their late teens and 20s.

Exactly....

“Beef its whats for dinner” or should be for young runners especially.

Female Athlete Triad is very real. Unfortunately loading up on calcium to bolster strong bones inhibits iron absorption. So does all the Starbucks coffees teens inhale..

Its a delicate balance for growing bodies.

NBN scared wrote:

Thinking that not running is better than winning is dumb. Tuohy has won her last high profile race.

So Ovett had a better career as a result running when he was sick in 1984 and finishing last in the 800 and dropping out in the 1500?

arunnery660 wrote:

Exactly....

“Beef its whats for dinner” or should be for young runners especially.

Female Athlete Triad is very real. Unfortunately loading up on calcium to bolster strong bones inhibits iron absorption. So does all the Starbucks coffees teens inhale..

Its a delicate balance for growing bodies.

Bones are mostly protein, due to the matrix "scaffold" which binds with calcium. High-plant diets are a double-whammy as they have lower quality protein plus are high in oxalates (that funny word that Sage has never heard of due to his being stuck in 1970s-dogma vegetarianism) which bind calcium and deplete the body of iron and other minerals. One of the worst things that a developing runner can do is develop a "smoothie" habit: high sugar and high oxalates/phytates. This fad is one of many steps in the wrong direction encouraged by the corporate status quo, who depend on people getting sick and injured for their livelihood. A bone-healthy diet is high in animal-source protein and saturated fat.

Again, to combat the "Female Triad" (a bit of a misnomer since high-carb, low-fat, low-protein diets promote a feminizing hormone environment for male runners), eat more/primarily meat, fish and eggs, as well as healthy whole dairy for those who can tolerate it (eliminate the lactose and A1 casein when possible and focus on butterfat if you have had problems).

Jen Ecks wrote:

[quote]arunnery660 wrote:

I think she studies hard at her prep school too, so I don't really give an athlete a pass because they are taking AP's. /quote]

I'm seeing more and more of this garbage, and it makes me actually hope the worst hysteria about global warming is true and everything goes bonkers in 10+ years. The idea that studying hard exacts a toll similar to, I dunno, trimming trees seems pervasive, and I honestly feel sorry for any generation whose members think using your brain is so taxing that it will sap your running energy. What do you idiots recommend instead, sitting around staring vacantly at walls?

Classwork is like 6th on the list of stresses that might affect high-schoolers' running.

It’s not the brain, it’s the time. Some of these kids get hours of homework a night, plus SAT and AP prep, plus running crazy miles sometimes twice a day, plus travel time to and from school and far off meets, plus mandatory community service, plus trying to have somewhat of a normal high school experience. It wears on them, especially when it cuts into sleep. And lack of sleep is certainly not number 6 on the list of factors impacting long-term running performance.

High schoolers don't get homework anymore. Especially not at public school. The wimpy liberals and sjw's have killed our education system. Teachers are quitting at an alarming rate because they aren't allowed to actually teach anymore.

This thread should be retitled as, "Things that could go wrong for teen-age girls,"

No homework wrote:

Deer Runner wrote:

It’s not the brain, it’s the time. Some of these kids get hours of homework a night, plus SAT and AP prep, plus running crazy miles sometimes twice a day, plus travel time to and from school and far off meets, plus mandatory community service, plus trying to have somewhat of a normal high school experience. It wears on them, especially when it cuts into sleep. And lack of sleep is certainly not number 6 on the list of factors impacting long-term running performance.

High schoolers don't get homework anymore. Especially not at public school. The wimpy liberals and sjw's have killed our education system. Teachers are quitting at an alarming rate because they aren't allowed to actually teach anymore.

Obviously it varies by school, and many good schools, both public and private, give a ton of homework. I would agree that there are many poor performing schools that give little homework, but that was the case 30 years ago as well. But high performing schools / programs are a different story. NYC elite public high schools give about 4 hours per night, and often the kids commute an hour or more to get there and another hour to get back.