World Champion Emma Coburn Expresses Doubt that Beatrice Chepkoech's World Record in Steeple is Clean

fhgfdgdf wrote:

Men's SC WR is about 7% slower than the flat 3000m WR. The difference between Obiri's 3000m and Chepkoech's steeple is only about 5%. Are women's barrier lower relative to their height? Would this explain the discrepancy? Certainly high 8:40s is definitely possible in the women's steeple.

The steeplechase, women's especially, is usually devoid of the same talent you'll see in the 1500m/5000m. Emma Coburn only has a 3k PB of 8:41, she can't seriously expect to keep up with someone who has a flat 3k of 8:28 and has clearly moved on since then. I would become instantly suspicious if someone ran sub 8:40 for SC.

She may or may not be able to keep up with a 3k PB of 8:28, but when that time is not legit due to doping who cares. Get that doper off the circuit. It's embarrassing for the sport.

wejo wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Oooooh! I remember the deleted posts too. And I like Jager.

I think you remember wrong.

I just found this thread:

9 pages of posts on Jager being listed on the "likely doping" spreadsheet and I can see there are..... 2 Deleted posts in the entire thread.

How is that remembering wrong when you confirmed that there were 2 deletions in one thread alone?

On top of those deletions, many Jager-related deletions occurred in other threads. That seems to be getting better now though.

Plus, you let it slide that he lied about that test (I wasn't tested/it was altitude). Just as you did with Paula (it was 30C/I was tested right after the race/it was altitude).

On the other hand, you - thankfully - like pouncing on NOP's lies - except for Ritz.

ComeOn wrote:

wejo wrote:

As for Canova, he posts on here. Jager did a podcast and answered all the questions. I think you'll find generally that people who present their own version of events are viewed more favorably. If they don't answer questions, then the narrative in people's mind is more negative.

You always allow people to troll him and make terrible comments to him. Malmo agrees. .

I strongly disagree. I've emphatically told wejo to stop Renato's trolls.

Is Shelby H clean?

fdff wrote:

fhgfdgdf wrote:

Men's SC WR is about 7% slower than the flat 3000m WR. The difference between Obiri's 3000m and Chepkoech's steeple is only about 5%. Are women's barrier lower relative to their height? Would this explain the discrepancy? Certainly high 8:40s is definitely possible in the women's steeple.

The steeplechase, women's especially, is usually devoid of the same talent you'll see in the 1500m/5000m. Emma Coburn only has a 3k PB of 8:41, she can't seriously expect to keep up with someone who has a flat 3k of 8:28 and has clearly moved on since then. I would become instantly suspicious if someone ran sub 8:40 for SC.

She may or may not be able to keep up with a 3k PB of 8:28, but when that time is not legit due to doping who cares. Get that doper off the circuit. It's embarrassing for the sport.

Plenty of women can run 8:30. If they bothered to turn their attentions to steeple, they would be equally as capable as Chepkoech.

don't do it wrote:

George213 wrote:

Hate to say this, but I have to agree with you on this.

By Coburn's logic, Houlihan who suddenly came along and broke the 5K AR with ease and dropped a 3:57 1500m with a 57 last lap should have raised some eyebrows.

Is Shelby H clean?

She could certainly run a 8:4X steeple!

dsaf wrote:

don't do it wrote:

Is Shelby H clean?

She could certainly run a 8:4X steeple!

Too much talent to waste on the steeple.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Beatrice Chepkoech is managed by Jos and coached by Som, the same combo that brought us Aregawi.

Move along, folks. Nothing to see here then.

George213 wrote:

Hate to say this, but I have to agree with you on this.

By Coburn's logic, Houlihan who suddenly came along and broke the 5K AR with ease and dropped a 3:57 1500m with a 57 last lap should have raised some eyebrows.

Good post. Houlihan has improved a ton. She went from 15:00 to 14:34 this year. From 4:03 to 3:57.

I'd bet my life she's clean. I imagine Coburn thinks she's clean as well.

I still don't get the animosity. I mean to be truthful. People wonder why these boards allow anonymous postings. It's because we know there are many pros with thoughts like this and many of them don't want to post them under their name as they get curcified when they do.

I remember talking to a top 1500 runner a few years back off the record and he or she implied they were pretty certain Kiprop was dirty. They were right.

HOW SAD! Emma loses her AR and failed miserably in her sub 9 minute goal. The only alternative is to attack simeone who would have destroyed her at 2017 Worlds had she

1. not had to double back to go over the water jump.

2. Fell later in the race and still finished 4th

Beatrice started out as a road race with little success over 10km and half marathon. She turned her attention to the track trying everything from 400 hurdles to 5000m before focusing on the steeple.

She lowered tge Kenyan Indoor NR by over 2 seconds to 4:02.21, has run 60 flat for 400 hurdles, Has a sub 15 minute 5000m pb and Emma wonder why she is so dominant. Maybe Emma should change her Epo regime to what Beatrice is "supposedly" using. Then maybe Emna will stop whinning.

If Jenny Simpsom had stuck to the steeple the WR would be sub 8:50 and Emma "Im so unhappy" Coburn would say the samething about Jenny. Over tge next 5 years there will be many sub 9 minute performances and a couple sub 8:55, I guess they wont be clean huh Emma.

Hey Emma make sure you never run near 8:52; otherwise, you're dirty according to your logic. Hey wait you cant run that fast that's why you're crying.

fhgfdgdf wrote:

Men's SC WR is about 7% slower than the flat 3000m WR. The difference between Obiri's 3000m and Chepkoech's steeple is only about 5%. Are women's barrier lower relative to their height? Would this explain the discrepancy? Certainly high 8:40s is definitely possible in the women's steeple. .

Yes, they are WAY lower. That was John Kellogg's thinking. The women's barriers are 6 inches lower. Think about that.

Here's my stat of the week.

According to wikipedia, Conseslus Kipruto is shorter than Beatrick Chepkoech. He is 5'6 (1.67m) and Chekpoech is 5'7 (1.70m). Yes, she's taller than him and yet she gets to hurdle 6 inches lower.

I would have to say that Houlihan and Frerichs are just as suspicious as Chepkoech if we’re going purely by times. They both had massive single season improvements.

Which is to say, I don’t see any reason to assume any of them is doping.

Last year it was Shalane crying because Jordan ran faster than her and this year it is Emma crying because Courtney Frerichs became the AR holder.

Shalane and Emma have oversized egos that make them think that no one should ever run faster than them.

The other poster was arguing the OPPOSITE. That we are too nice to Canova. Just shows if you are in the public sphere you can't make everyone happy. I do like to hear where people think we are coming up short and try and improve. There ALWAYS is room for improvement. The other poster wrote "Also, this site has been very warm and accommodating to Canova and the Italian coaches who coach in Kenya and Ethiopia so people should not say that LRC is too hard on Kenya’s /Ethiopians overall.

Sumgong is a convicted doper. She had TESTED positive at the time of that article. And there is valid reason to cast doubt on the rest of the group. I had just visited them and the reason they explained to me directly for their success was they really trusted their coach and he was so close to them all. Well the coach, Noah Talam is Sumgong's husband. His sister is Sarah Chepchirchir. Runners in the group across the board had rapid, rapid improvement. I don't think that article was unfair at all.

If you want to say I was unfair a better article would have been I think the article I wrote at the Olympics where I asked her doping questions. At least then she hadn't tested positive and I didn't know details of the group.

Drivers love to speed where there are no police!

This is hardly earth shattering. Any American who gets beat automaticly looks for an excuse. The most popular is that xxx runner who beat me is dirty. With no proof. Just because someone guess right doesn’t make it a trend.

Emma has no proof. Nothing she looks like a whiny entitled white girl. She also runs for a racist company

don't do it wrote:

Is Shelby H clean?

I have no idea. I hope so. But drug testing is considered to be better in the US and there haven't been a lot of doping positive and most of the people visiting this site are American so more people are going to believe so. Same with Frerichs.

Emma clearly thinks Frerichs is clean. If she had been a Kenyan with her huge improvement at Worlds, I wonder if she would think differently.

As Paula Radcliffe told me, "At the end of the day you only know about one person being clean- yourself." That was after she said she had befriend I think Ali Saidi Sief and started to think he might be clean and then he tested positive. Her point was our friendships can cloud our beliefs.

If they sit and kick to win people complain.

If they run balls out in front to win people complain.

Make up your mind people!

Almaz Ayana broke a lot of mental Dibaba-barriers for non-lethal-kick female runners when she ran her 29:17 over 10000 at the Olympics. Chepkoech and Laura Muir now runs the same way. Muir took down NOP new female lead Sifan Hassan a few weeks ago. It worked pretty well for Paula Radcliffe in the Marathon back in the days too. I predict we'll se lots more women try this over the next coupla years, not just the occasional flash in the pan, but often, much more often. And sometimes it will happen on days when the stars are aligned.

El Keniano wrote:

Fun fact about Beatrice: She's such a good hurdler that she won the Kenya Prisons games 400m hurdles with a sub 60. Something new for Emma to think about.

I'm totally a Beatrice Chepkoech fan from now on.