TCU and Baylor out! Ohio State in!

dial it up wrote:

I wouldn't be angry if the playoff went to 8, though it would lose some luster. However, 8 would just be a stepping stone for idiots who want it to go to 16 and completely dilute the regular season(which may be the best regular season of any american sport due to the drama every week).

And that right there is the problem. If you want high significance for every regular season game, then you can't have an undisputed true champion. The only time that happens is if one and only one team ends up undefeated, otherwise you don't have an undisputed champion.

The only way to have an undisputed champion is to have a wider, more-inclusive playoff with automatic qualifiers so everyone has a legitimate chance, but that inevitably downplays the regular season.

I think for the most part the only people who don't believe the team that is crowned national champion isnt the national champion are the people who feel the need to argue everything. Ive never heard anyone on espn say "good job florida state but you know that Boise probably was the best team."

dial it up wrote:

I think for the most part the only people who don't believe the team that is crowned national champion isnt the national champion are the people who feel the need to argue everything. Ive never heard anyone on espn say "good job florida state but you know that Boise probably was the best team."

The NCAA?

Appreciate your impartiality and agree that Buckeyes will be force to be reckoned with in coming years, as much as I can't stand Urban Myth.

That said, almost every college ranking system has Big Ten ranked lower than SEC, Big 12, and even the Pac 12, OSU has the worst loss compared to Baylor and TCU, the only basis of comparison was TCU's thumping of Minnesota versus OSU's one TD win, and OSU did not play as hard of a schedule as TCU if you believe the computers.

But computers have flaws, no doubt. They don't know that OSU has done this with three QBs. Baylor never should've been in the conversation. They can't play defense. The only reason they beat TCU at home was with a furious 4th qtr comeback and a lot of luck.

Where we don't agree is that I think TCU beats OSU 7 or 8 times out of ten on neutral field. But, I think they're both better that FSU. Most ranking systems have TCU #2 in the nation. They simply don't have the clout of TOSU. It would be nice to see TOSU knock off Alabama, but I don't see it happening.

Take a closer look, the big 12 is not as good as you think. Baylor's quality wins were Oklahoma(lost to Ok St. at home) and Kansas St(lost to what we now know was a very overrated Auburn at home). Other than that there is a big lack of substance in that conference.

Actually, OSU did have the stronger strength of schedule than TCU.

The Big 12 might have been marginally better than the Big Ten this year but not overwhelmingly so and we aren't putting the entire conference in the playoff, just OSU.

Fact is, part of the reason the Big Ten looked worse is because they overall had harder non-conference schedules than the Big 12 so they had a few more losses. If Michigan State had not played at Oregon (replace the Ducks with say mighty Buffalo) then their only loss would be to Ohio State and everyone would be talking about what a quality win that was for the Buckeyes.

Same for Wisconsin and their loss to LSU. They would have been in the top ten when OSU beat them if they had scheduled like Baylor or TCU.

The only Big 12 contender with a real non-conference opponent this year was Kansas State with Auburn (ironic because KSU and Auburn are both notorious for scheduling automatic wins for their non-conference games). A game they lost at home.

Baylor was definitely punished for their non-conference schedule though. The committee doesn't want everyone scheduling FCS and non Power 5 also rans every time.

Rube wrote:

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/conference-power-rankings

Wow, you know you just sent me the link to a BLOG correct? Not just a blog, but a blog improperly interpreting information to generate rubes like you for more clicks. For example, I sure hope the big 12 has a good non-conference record when their champion plays:

SMU(1 win all season)

Northwestern st(FCS)

Buffalo(below .500)

Actually, TCU and Baylor were co-champions. That Baylor barely beat TCU at home with a last second field goal doesn't diminish this fact, as TCU would be favored on a neutral field.

It's not really OSU that screwed TCU anyway. It's FSU. Yes they were undefeated but most major mathematically-based ratings systems have them ranked much lower. They also have TCU as playing a slightly harder schedule than OSU.

Common opponents, TCU crushed an Ok St. team that FSU barely survived and crushed a Minn team that OSU barely survived. Baylor has no argument here. TCU does.

TCU will not draw eyeballs. It really IS that simple.

Rube,

OSU didn't "barely survive" Minnesota. They led by 17 with 12 mins to play and after the first possession of the 3rd quarter Minnesota NEVER had the ball with a chance to tie or take the lead. So can you clarify what you mean by "barely survive", I'm not sure you know what that phrase means.

Side note: OSU also out gained them by 190 yards, but lost the TO battle. A good decisive road win in tough weather would be a more accurate description.

Rube wrote: Baylor has no argument here. TCU does.

Anyone who claims that TCU should be in but Baylor has no argument isn't worth debating.

Rube wrote:

Actually, TCU and Baylor were co-champions. That Baylor barely beat TCU at home with a last second field goal doesn't diminish this fact, as TCU would be favored on a neutral field.

It's not really OSU that screwed TCU anyway. It's FSU. Yes they were undefeated but most major mathematically-based ratings systems have them ranked much lower. They also have TCU as playing a slightly harder schedule than OSU.

Common opponents, TCU crushed an Ok St. team that FSU barely survived and crushed a Minn team that OSU barely survived. Baylor has no argument here. TCU does.

TCU will not draw eyeballs. It really IS that simple.

If this were just a two team national title, FSU would still be in. Saying a team with 29 consecutive wins, and a quarterback who is the defending heisman and is 26-0 in his career would not or should not be in the playoffs is just plain ignorant. The only reason they were 4 at one point is to attempt to set up a regional friendly matchup with Alabama. They also didn't scrape by OK ST, did you watch it? I did. They outgained them by over 100 yards, held both a 17 point lead early and a 13 point lead late in the 4th before a garbage time TD made it look closer.

Did I say FSU shouldn't be in? Of course you can't deny an undefeated team from a "major" conference. Yes, I did watch that game vs Ok. St. as I thought it might be an upset special. It was 27-24 until very late in the 4th qtr, and Ok. St. had two picks from two different QBs, one very untimely, to FSU's one. That was the difference.

You saw Massey. You saw ESPN. Here's another one on strength of schedule:

http://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team

Baylor #17

TCU #26

FSU #33

OSU #38

Looking at pure rating, Jeff Sagarin has

1.) Alabama

2.) TCU

3.) Oregon

5.) OSU

7.) Baylor

15.) FSU

I think TCU has a strong case.

Very late in the 4th quarter as in with 12 minutes to go? I dont believe you actually watched it if you think FSU was ever in any danger of losing.

TCU had one quality win over #11 Kansas State.

FSU beat #12 Georgia Tech, #17 Clemson, #21 Louisville, along with Florida and Notre Dame

Ohio State beat #8 Michigan State and #18 Wisconsin

Baylor beat #6 TCU and #11 Kansas State

I actually think TCU is better than Baylor, but neither team has a leg to stand on. Now if you subscribe to the blog garbage only designed to generate buzz and you think the Big 12 is somehow much better than the big 10 then the only team with a real argument is Baylor because they have more quality wins. The committee got it right.

Just to clarify, the outcome of the FSU-Ok St. game was very much in question as Ok St. was driving to go ahead with the score 30-24 when they fumbled the ball in FSU territory with less than 5:00 to go. Then and only then did FSU nail the coffin shut.

I don't think you can make a case that any of the teams in question really played a hard schedule. Not compared to an SEC team.

What about bad losses? Baylor lost badly to WVU while TCU beat them, both on the road. OSU lost to Va Tech. TCU lost to Baylor on the road on a last second field goal.

I just don't think you can, with a straight face, drop the team ranked #3 all the way to #6 after they more than covered the spread on the last weekend just to save face because they aren't a brand name and they lost to another team in the same conference that thought they had an argument. I'm sure TCU would've welcomed and won a rematch with Baylor instead of settling for co-champion.

WWRD, to be fair, you are right. I did not watch OSU-Minn; looks like Minn launched a furious comeback but OSU was never in jeopardy of losing that game. Then again, Minn was never even close to TCU.

@dial it up

Re: quality wins and the $EC

Quality wins...LOL. Your basis is bogus rankings. Lowly Arkansas "earned" --cough, cough-- an E$ecPN Power Ranking of #25 with a record of 6-5. The $EC west needed some special E$PN lovin' after LSU, Mississippi St, and Ole Miss were exposed as severely over-ranked. Butt, those "special" rankings help the E$ecPN earn beauty points with the gullible playoff committee.

Kwality Wyns wrote:

@dial it up

Re: quality wins and the $EC

Quality wins...LOL. Your basis is bogus rankings. Lowly Arkansas "earned" --cough, cough-- an E$ecPN Power Ranking of #25 with a record of 6-5. The $EC west needed some special E$PN lovin' after LSU, Mississippi St, and Ole Miss were exposed as severely over-ranked. Butt, those "special" rankings help the E$ecPN earn beauty points with the gullible playoff committee.

Who the hell is talking about the SEC? You are drunk. Go sleep it off.

1) Ohio State's loss could be argued as the best because they did it right after losing their heisman candidate qb.

2) Re-read what I already wrote about TCU going from 3-6. This IS NOT THE AP POLL. They said at the beginning of the year that the committee will do things differently. Each week, they will rank the teams how they feel they are AT THAT MOMENT. Meaning, unlike the coaches or ap polls, they don't take previous weeks ranking into account. TCU was ahead of FSU, Baylor, and OSU before the last week based on current resumes. However, FSU beat a highly ranked and red hot Georgia Tech to win the ACC.....Baylor added a win against a highly ranked Kansas State to their resume, a win that TCU already had factored into their resume....and Ohio State throttled a red hot highly ranked Wisconsin team to win the Big 10. TCU was #3 because they had some good wins, however during the last week those other three teams added quality wins to their resume. So looking at everyone's total body of work, we get the rankings we got.

3) Maybe TCU would beat Baylor in a rematch, maybe they wouldn't. It doesn't really matter. To really know who is better, they would have had to play a third time technically. Seeing as how neither team made it, it is kind of pointless.