AMERICANS DISAPPOINT IN CHICAGO

It's funny... when Llano was talking about going sub-2:10 all I could think was this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWhMjRpV7ms

He's running the same workout as 2:10:57 Ryan Vail on the day. I just wonder how he could possibly think he is more than 1 minute better than him after this.

Regarding Llano- that whole group doesn't even care about running fast. If anyone even follows them on any social media website they quickly learn that their whole group is about taking selfies and being as obnoxious as possible about how they are God's gift to running. Maybe if they all shut their mouths and just ran they would run a little better! I started out a fan for the new group but now I just want to delete all of them from twitter because they are so annoying. I didn't even know Bobby Curtis was in the race and he ran awesome! What a complete joke that Llano thought he was going to break the american record. Show me where this guy has ever finished higher than top 5 in any US championship.. maybe he should focus on that first.

know-it-all joe wrote:

Le Chapeau wrote:

How did Kimetto and Kipketer get Malaria then?

Obviously not in Iten because there is not a single mosquito there.

What "All in the stride?" said is completely correct, at least if applied to Iten. That is not even up for debate.

That has nothing to do with the fact that East Africa is not some bucolic Utopia free of pestilence and danger and ideal for running around barefoot.

That was the original erroneous premise.

When I scanned the results, the first thing that I thought was that the Americans ran pretty well.

Everyone runs to their own abilities and expectations and the particular Americans there did well.

You can point out that the US doesn't have anyone in contention to win but it's not the fault of those that are trying and performing.

There are too many opportunities in America to make a decent living for all of the talent to sacrifice financial security to train for the hopes of a sub 2:10 marathon.

So you won't get Kenyan depth.

But you may get a gem here or there.

Funny how you praise Hansons and put down Northern Arizona. You do realize that Ben Rosario (NAZ Coach) is an ex Hanson runner that utilizes the same training philosophy as the Hansons?

hahhahha ;-)

On a more serious note, there is a clear discrepancy between expectations and performances among many American runners outside of the national top-5.

If you are a true blue collar runner and "work" a "full time" "job", then why do you shoot for a superhuman effort only to be on camera during your buildup and pre-race? You should be content with a slower time.

It can also be that you are blue collar only because you "work" as a way to make your results seem faster.

E.g. Blue collar 2:16 = Real pro 2:08

Who supported Jerry Lawson during his years of racing..? The guy ran 2:09:35 in Chicago ... Who supported Dick Beardsley who ran 2:08:53 in Boston? Who supported Bill Rodgers when he broke out in 1975 at Boston with his 2:09:55?

Le Chapeau wrote:

Why didn't guys like Jones and Shorter and Rodgers need support to train?

If you have the ability, you don't need support.

hhhjj wrote:

young and underemployed wrote:

not enough support for up and coming American marathoners. They can't do the training they need to do.

If the Kenyans can do the training, then the Americans can do the training. Why do they need support? Just get a part time job.

Exactly. Too much whining and not enough dedication. There are no excuses. You either get serious or you don't.

I haven't read any of this thread - maybe it has been discussed already - but would Shalane have won this race? Is she regretting running berlin instead of Chicago? In the end she probably could have run the same 2:21 and maybe won a world major.

agip wrote:

I haven't read any of this thread - maybe it has been discussed already - but would Shalane have won this race? Is she regretting running berlin instead of Chicago? In the end she probably could have run the same 2:21 and maybe won a world major.

Do you pay attention at all to the sport? Jeptoo is the best female marathoner in the World right now. She would have run whatever it took to win Chicago. Were you so ignorant that you compared winning times of the 2 races? Jeptoo sat on Shalane in Boston and then ran a minute a mile faster than her over the last 5 miles. They are in completely different leagues.

I have been thinking along these lines, but you have said it perfectly, Jzs.

[quote]Jzs wrote:

Who supported Jerry Lawson during his years of racing..? The guy ran 2:09:35 in Chicago ... Who supported Dick Beardsley who ran 2:08:53 in Boston? Who supported Bill Rodgers when he broke out in 1975 at Boston with his 2:09:55?

[quote]

Life is mostly about trying.

Sorry for the poor quoting--sometimes I hate these iPads. Did not mean to bold the last line.

You seem to be easily irritated. With the successes Canova and Hermans have had it's hard to argue that they are just bloviating schmucks who were just in the right place at the right time.

While you don't like having to read their excuses, I don't know what else you expect. Hermans and Bekele believed that, based on his debut and pedigree, he'd be ready to run a very fast time. It didn't happen. They are trying to offer up reasons as to why as they go through their evaluation process, because people are asking them why. Pretty standard. Why does this make following running tiresome for you? Do you think this is uncommon in the sporting world?

It amazes me how some of these guys make such a dust-up over trying to do what Americans have already done 30 or more years ago.

NAZ is a solid choice wrote:

agip wrote:

I haven't read any of this thread - maybe it has been discussed already - but would Shalane have won this race? Is she regretting running berlin instead of Chicago? In the end she probably could have run the same 2:21 and maybe won a world major.

Do you pay attention at all to the sport? Jeptoo is the best female marathoner in the World right now. She would have run whatever it took to win Chicago. Were you so ignorant that you compared winning times of the 2 races? Jeptoo sat on Shalane in Boston and then ran a minute a mile faster than her over the last 5 miles. They are in completely different leagues.

And the favorite ALWAYS wins in marathoning. Dita was the favorite, as was Benoit, as was Lopes, as was Stephen Kiprotich. Understood. And Dewey beat Truman, too.

agip wrote:

I haven't read any of this thread - maybe it has been discussed already - but would Shalane have won this race? Is she regretting running berlin instead of Chicago? In the end she probably could have run the same 2:21 and maybe won a world major.

Did you watch the race? It was a complete jogfest for Rita Jeptoo like all her marathon wins. If Shalane wanted to win a major she made the right choice not to run the same race as Rita.

Maybe, since Africans are coming to America and winning all of our races, we need to send Americans over to East Africa to win some of their marathons.

Jzs wrote:

Who supported Jerry Lawson during his years of racing..? The guy ran 2:09:35 in Chicago ... Who supported Dick Beardsley who ran 2:08:53 in Boston? Who supported Bill Rodgers when he broke out in 1975 at Boston with his 2:09:55?

Le Chapeau wrote:

Why didn't guys like Jones and Shorter and Rodgers need support to train?

If you have the ability, you don't need support.

But the top Americans with those times back then were making a decent wage under the table with appearance fees, correct? Would a 2:09 American male make comparable appearance fees now?

Dixie Gnormose wrote:

Collin, I agree on both of your posts.

First of all, these guys get enough to live just from their shoe deals. Those in some sort of sponsored group that offers even more benefits may have a house, van for daily use back and forth from training venues, access to decent track, a dude standing there handing out drinks and calling out times.

What more could they get that would turn 2:14 into 2:05? I can't think of anything other than drugs that would help, and there aren't any that would help that much. Compared to the average resident of Iten, these guys have an excellent setup!

Anyway, I think Curtis and Hastings have nothing to be embarrassed about. Congrats to those two for keeping USA one of the top-five marathoning countries in the world!

Not to be crass , missing here is not the money , or support dudes , its talent and coaching. Our average marathoner is just that on a global standard , the not so fast athlete jumps up to the marathon and becomes a not so fast marathoner , but be comes "top american" We do not have the coaching knowledge to build work class marathoners. The faster athletes wait until track careers are over then move up to be become average.

We need a shift in attitude , coaches wanting to learn vs experiment and lets see whats happens approach. For the available resources and opportunities we have we really are below average as whole. I would have hoped Meb would inspire but that does not seem the case.