Wow not a single American under 2:11 and only one American within 9 minutes of the winner. Disappointing to say the least, these guys sucked today. Between Landry, Curtis, Llano, and the other Hanson's Brooks guys I thought we'd have a handful under 2:10.
not enough support for up and coming American marathoners. They can't do the training they need to do.
How exactly did Llano have any hope of running under 2:10? I could just as easily talk about breaking a Ryan Hall record in my next marathon, and would also have a 0% chance of even getting close. He'll be much closer, but neither of us will have any real chance. His half marathon time is great, but not indicative of being able to debut under 2:10 or even close. If he had evenly paced, he probably could've gone 2:14, but he chose to go out way too fast for his ability and suffered for it. Landro ran a slight, PR no? He was never going to go from 2:14:high to 2:09:xx. Way below his expectations, but not surprisingly bad. Curtis certainly didn't disappoint. A 2 minute PR at that level is a big deal. Odds are that he won't ever get to the level of making the podium in a race like Chicago, but it's nice to see him chipping away. Overall, you need to realize that Americans essentially never fulfill what they say they're going for. Our runners dream big, but the Africans are just better.
young and underemployed wrote:
not enough support for up and coming American marathoners. They can't do the training they need to do.
They have a lot more support than African guys at their talent level (none whatsoever). Landry did 150 miles a week (probably too much), so I think he was fully capable of doing the training he needed to...
NBC DISAPPOINTED IN CHICAGO!
QUIT SELLING EXCLUSIONARY RIGHTS!
Who is paying Llano's bills? Never heard of this guy before. You can't tell me that there aren't a bunch ex-college guys that could break 2:12, given the opportunity of his training setup.
Well, maybe not. Wejo gave it a shot.
But yeah, the original point is quite valid. Kenya can bring up hundreds of runners in altitude camps for pennies. The culture here is way too expensive to do that.
Sciatica Road wrote:
NBC DISAPPOINTED IN CHICAGO!
This. The American men represented pretty well for who they were, but got not even a single screen shot or mention during the race. Add that to a million other f*ck-ups and you have the worst broadcast of a World Marathon Major ever aired. Why should anyone care at all about this stupid sport?
Collin, I agree on both of your posts.
First of all, these guys get enough to live just from their shoe deals. Those in some sort of sponsored group that offers even more benefits may have a house, van for daily use back and forth from training venues, access to decent track, a dude standing there handing out drinks and calling out times.
What more could they get that would turn 2:14 into 2:05? I can't think of anything other than drugs that would help, and there aren't any that would help that much. Compared to the average resident of Iten, these guys have an excellent setup!
Anyway, I think Curtis and Hastings have nothing to be embarrassed about. Congrats to those two for keeping USA one of the top-five marathoning countries in the world!
Is that what we have sunk to as a nation? Proud of being in the top five marathoning nations? Really? Wow, this new generation is killing America.
Dixie Gnormose wrote:
Anyway, I think Curtis and Hastings have nothing to be embarrassed about. Congrats to those two for keeping USA one of the top-five marathoning countries in the world!
Strive for Greatness wrote:
Is that what we have sunk to as a nation? Proud of being in the top five marathoning nations? Really?
Wow, this new generation is killing America.
Enough with the dramatics. When we're THIS overmatched, then for now, we take what we can get. Track-wise, & overall running-wise, we're doing well.
young and underemployed wrote:
not enough support for up and coming American marathoners. They can't do the training they need to do.
If the Kenyans can do the training, then the Americans can do the training. Why do they need support? Just get a part time job.
Collin wrote:
How exactly did Llano have any hope of running under 2:10? I could just as easily talk about breaking a Ryan Hall record in my next marathon, and would also have a 0% chance of even getting close. He'll be much closer, but neither of us will have any real chance. His half marathon time is great, but not indicative of being able to debut under 2:10 or even close. If he had evenly paced, he probably could've gone 2:14, but he chose to go out way too fast for his ability and suffered for it. Landro ran a slight, PR no? He was never going to go from 2:14:high to 2:09:xx. Way below his expectations, but not surprisingly bad. Curtis certainly didn't disappoint. A 2 minute PR at that level is a big deal. Odds are that he won't ever get to the level of making the podium in a race like Chicago, but it's nice to see him chipping away. Overall, you need to realize that Americans essentially never fulfill what they say they're going for. Our runners dream big, but the Africans are just better.
LLano's half and Landry's 25km ARE indicative of low 2:10 potential (assuming they extend the aerobic endurance).
Sciatica Road wrote:
LLano's half and Landry's 25km ARE indicative of low 2:10 potential (assuming they extend the aerobic endurance).
Point being, the time Landry was shooting for was not at all unreasonable or unobtainable.
young and underemployed wrote:
not enough support for up and coming American marathoners. They can't do the training they need to do.
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, but, on the off chance you're being serious, what training, could, for example, Curtis do that would get him to 2:03?? It's not like they're running 13 flat 5ks off of talent low mileage and just can't find the time to put in the miles to run a comparable marathon....
With the possible exception of Rupp, there is no American pro who could break 2:05 right now - no matter how hard or smart they trained.
Ryan Hall, who was very nearly a sub 4 minute miler in HS and who was predisposed to the marathon couldn't beat these guys - heck he couldn't beat the guys who weren't quite as good as these guys! We produce a runner like Hall only every 10 or 20 years and never in bunches.
When the best E. Africans were running 2:07 or 2:08, I used to think that the reason Americans were losing to them had to do with training methods and support. I don't think that anymore.
Until and unless we find out that all the E. Africans are walking drug stores, and have access to stuff most Americans don't, we're going to have to accept being the 3rd or 5th or whatever best long distance running nation in the world.
It's too bad. I'd held out hope for many years that this wasn't the case. For whatever reason, this year has convinced me otherwise. Sucks, but there it is.
Here are the top 25 results. What's noticeable about Llano is his dismal positive splits. He thought he was in much better shape than he turned out to be. His very long long runs plainly did NOT help:
1 1 1 » Kipchoge, Eliud (KEN) 2 25-29 29 01:02:11 02:04:11 Add runner to 'My Runners'
2 2 2 » Kitwara, Sammy (KEN) 6 25-29 27 01:02:12 02:04:28 Add runner to 'My Runners'
3 3 3 » Chumba, Dickson (KEN) 7 25-29 27 01:02:12 02:04:32 Add runner to 'My Runners'
4 4 1 » Bekele, Kenenisa (ETH) 1 30-34 32 01:02:12 02:05:51 Add runner to 'My Runners'
5 5 4 » Koech, Bernard (KEN) 5 25-29 26 01:02:12 02:08:30 Add runner to 'My Runners'
6 6 1 » Ghebreslassie, Ghirmay (ERI) 51 16-19 18 01:02:11 02:09:08 Add runner to 'My Runners'
7 7 5 » Rutto, Lani (KEN) 43 25-29 25 01:02:12 02:10:42 Add runner to 'My Runners'
8 8 2 » Korir, Wesley (KEN) 8 30-34 31 01:04:16 02:11:09 Add runner to 'My Runners'
9 9 6 » Curtis, Bobby (USA) 17 25-29 29 01:05:30 02:11:20 Add runner to 'My Runners'
10 10 7 » Kobayashi, Koji (JPN) Ota, GUNMA 9 25-29 25 01:04:17 02:11:43 Add runner to 'My Runners'
11 11 8 » Riley, Jake (USA) 35 25-29 25 01:06:33 02:13:16 Add runner to 'My Runners'
12 12 1 » Proctor, Gabe (USA) 30 20-24 24 01:05:32 02:13:45 Add runner to 'My Runners'
13 13 9 » Landry, Christo (USA) 23 25-29 28 01:06:05 02:14:30 Add runner to 'My Runners'
14 14 10 » Young, Tim (USA) 27 25-29 27 01:06:50 02:14:40 Add runner to 'My Runners'
15 15 3 » Morgan, Mike (USA) 21 30-34 34 01:06:49 02:14:42 Add runner to 'My Runners'
16 16 4 » Okamoto, Naoki (JPN) Hiroshima, HIROSHIMA 16 30-34 30 01:05:48 02:15:19 Add runner to 'My Runners'
17 17 11 » Sasaki, Satoru (JPN) Nobeoka, MIYAZAKI 10 25-29 28 01:05:17 02:15:25 Add runner to 'My Runners'
18 18 5 » Fukuyama, Ryosuke (JPN) Sayama, SAITAMA 12 30-34 34 01:05:17 02:15:33 Add runner to 'My Runners'
19 19 12 » Leon, Craig (USA) 19 25-29 29 01:06:05 02:16:00 Add runner to 'My Runners'
20 20 13 » Trujillo, Carlos (USA) Middleton, ID 20 25-29 29 01:06:32 02:16:49 Add runner to 'My Runners'
21 21 14 » Yonezawa, Rui (JPN) Hiroshima, HIROSHIMA 15 25-29 26 01:05:17 02:17:30 Add runner to 'My Runners'
22 22 2 » Witt, Jason (USA) Provo, UT 75 20-24 24 01:08:24 02:17:31 Add runner to 'My Runners'
23 23 3 » Dewitt, John (USA) Milwaukee, WI 279 20-24 23 01:08:46 02:17:38 Add runner to 'My Runners'
24 24 15 » Llano, Matthew (USA) 36 25-29 26 01:05:30 02:17:43 Add runner to 'My Runners'
25 25 6 » Rizzo, Patrick (USA) 18 30-34 31 01:06:49 02:18:04 Add runner to 'My Runners'
Sorry. My error about Llano. I got him confused with Landry, who did somewhat better although still ran significant positive splits.
I'm impressed by Curtis, who was a scant 10 seconds behind Wesley Korir.
Well, the "numbers game" plays into it hugely. Imagine if we had 20-30 Ryan Halls training together at altitude. On race day, we might expect one of them to punch a 2:05.You might enjoy this video:http://vimeo.com/76935417
Link wrote:
young and underemployed wrote:not enough support for up and coming American marathoners. They can't do the training they need to do.
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, but, on the off chance you're being serious, what training, could, for example, Curtis do that would get him to 2:03?? It's not like they're running 13 flat 5ks off of talent low mileage and just can't find the time to put in the miles to run a comparable marathon....
With the possible exception of Rupp, there is no American pro who could break 2:05 right now - no matter how hard or smart they trained.
Ryan Hall, who was very nearly a sub 4 minute miler in HS and who was predisposed to the marathon couldn't beat these guys - heck he couldn't beat the guys who weren't quite as good as these guys! We produce a runner like Hall only every 10 or 20 years and never in bunches.
When the best E. Africans were running 2:07 or 2:08, I used to think that the reason Americans were losing to them had to do with training methods and support. I don't think that anymore.
Until and unless we find out that all the E. Africans are walking drug stores, and have access to stuff most Americans don't, we're going to have to accept being the 3rd or 5th or whatever best long distance running nation in the world.
It's too bad. I'd held out hope for many years that this wasn't the case. For whatever reason, this year has convinced me otherwise. Sucks, but there it is.
Curtis ran a 2+ minute PB. We think it was a great race for him:
I think the problem was that you had too high of expectations.
I was banking on nobody breaking 2:12 so it was a pleasant surprise that Curtis? Brought his PR down by 2 minutes
Sciatica Road wrote:
Well, the "numbers game" plays into it hugely. Imagine if we had 20-30 Ryan Halls training together at altitude. On race day, we might expect one of them to punch a 2:05.
You might enjoy this video:
http://vimeo.com/76935417
It must be the white Wonder Bread (at 4:30 into the video) they got from the Americans?