Bump.
Bump.
old guy 67 wrote:
Original Message
Author: ssm
Subject: RE: A lot of old guys WERE pretty fast
Message:
The Cal 10 was a part of the PAUSATF series until the the late 2000s, but all the years that you site (2010-2012)are after the race was part of the PA. As soon as the race was off the PA calendar the fast guys stopped showing up. The race is now basically a local race for the greater Stockton area and Sacramento.
When I was racing it in the early 2000s, there were lots of fast people running it.
In short, you are comparing apples and oranges.
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Could you find your results and let me know how many runners broke 60 min in one of those early 2000 races? I think 341 of 800+ did it in 1983.
I suspected that the Cal 10 had changed their course and/or become a local race. Thanks.
PS: I don't believe I'm comparing apples and oranges however. I was pointing out the high percentage of runners breaking an hour for ten miles (42-43% in a field of over 800) I don't think you could find a race today with those numbers. If you could then you would be comparing apples to apples.
I think the Cal 10 stopped being a part of the PA series in 2005. At the USATF-PA website they still have the results of PA-only runners. At the 2004 Cal 10 there were at least 50 PA Open runners under 60 (4 under 50), 3 open women under 60, 34 Masters under 60, another 3 Seniors under 60. Total of 90 runners under 60 minutes that were members in the PA. They stopped listing Open runners after the top 50 which ended at 57:42 so there were likely at least another 20 or so in there. Not too shabby.
Nowadays, the closest PA 10mile race to the Cal 10 is the Sactown 10 which had 86 under 60 and 7 under 50.
I've raced in NorCal since 1974. Cal10 was "the" 10-miler to race, other than Peachtree. It was certified by PAUSATF. I was consistently under 60 and a few times under 55. I can attest to the fact, that I finished way back in the pack even breaking 55. It was humbling, but exciting at the same time to run with guys, and see guys going sub-50. One of these guys was a high school buddy of mine racing for the Aggies. Ran something in the 48s at Cal-10 . . and didn't win the race.
And, I don't even what to hear B.S. about "short" courses. We may not have had electronic devices, etc. But, the certification of courses was strigent and most often done with a steel tape measure or the course was wheeled. And, even with steet tape or a wheel - there was guidelines to their use that had to be followed.
Someone measured a 10 mile road race with a steel tape?Shirley, you jest!
Ashley Madison wrote:
And, I don't even what to hear B.S. about "short" courses. We may not have had electronic devices, etc. But, the certification of courses was stringent and most often done with a steel tape measure or the course was wheeled. And, even with steel tape or a wheel - there was guidelines to their use that had to be followed.
Roadracing died when they did away with the post-race keg.....SERIOUSLY!!!!!!
Also, when the 10k stopped being the standard race distance.
Ashley Madison wrote:
I've raced in NorCal since 1974. Cal10 was "the" 10-miler to race, other than Peachtree. It was certified by PAUSATF. I was consistently under 60 and a few times under 55. I can attest to the fact, that I finished way back in the pack even breaking 55. It was humbling, but exciting at the same time to run with guys, and see guys going sub-50. One of these guys was a high school buddy of mine racing for the Aggies. Ran something in the 48s at Cal-10 . . and didn't win the race.
And, I don't even what to hear B.S. about "short" courses. We may not have had electronic devices, etc. But, the certification of courses was strigent and most often done with a steel tape measure or the course was wheeled. And, even with steet tape or a wheel - there was guidelines to their use that had to be followed.
Nope, I don't jest. I was also involved in course certification. The steel tape had to be used in conjunction with a wheel in order to ensure the arc/radius around turns was maintained in order to certify a course.
Broken record. I know plenty of sub 24 min 5 milers from xc who don't run anyomore.
they get married,, move on and realise running doesn't pay the bills.
No one's arguing that running pays the bills. It didn't pay the bills in the 70s and early 80s either but lots of people did it very seriously anyway.
HRE
RE: A lot of old guys WERE pretty fast 9/4/2013 9:17PM - in reply to Mick Lovin Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
No one's arguing that running pays the bills. It didn't pay the bills in the 70s and early 80s either but lots of people did it very seriously anyway.
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I was one of those who took it seriously. Without serious training I may have been able to run 65-66 min for ten miles. I'm obviously not naturally talented.
But, I busted my a$$ for three months training for the Cal 10 with the goal of earning a Sub 60 shirt. I trained for it the way I would have trained for a Marathon.
I made my goal and all the hard work was worth the effort. I set a goal, worked hard and succeeded.
Quite an accomplishment for a normally lazy person who lacked any real talent. There were four of us training together with the same goal in mind. Three of us made it.
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Ashley Madison wrote:
Nope, I don't jest. I was also involved in course certification. The steel tape had to be used in conjunction with a wheel in order to ensure the arc/radius around turns was maintained in order to certify a course.
I'm confused. I would think the measure must follow the shortest possible route a runner may take. Why do you think accurate measurement would be contingent on the radii of turns having symmetry instead of reflecting the shortest possible running path?
everybody should compare -just for fun- the results about 3k or 5k in the past and right now in 2013. example, m40-m44, 3k: 7 runners sub 10 mins 2013, 1990: 21 runners sub 10mins.
and so on!
http://www.mastersrankings.com/rankings.php?pagegroup=M40&sex=MEN&pseason=Outdoor&cyear=2013
Sounds to me like a lot of you old guys have very foggy memories
Modern man wrote:
Sounds to me like a lot of you old guys have very foggy memories
we love to entertain you.
please explain what a maintained arc/radius is.please explain how using a steel straight edge maintains arc/radius.http://www.usatf.org/Products-/-Services/Course-Certifications/USATF-Certified-Courses/Procedures-Manual/The-Shortest-Possible-Route.aspx
Ashley Madison wrote:
Ashley Madison wrote:And, I don't even what to hear B.S. about "short" courses. We may not have had electronic devices, etc. But, the certification of courses was strigent and most often done with a steel tape measure or the course was wheeled. And, even with steet tape or a wheel - there was guidelines to their use that had to be followed.
Nope, I don't jest. I was also involved in course certification. The steel tape had to be used in conjunction with a wheel in order to ensure the arc/radius around turns was maintained in order to certify a course.
Nothing about ensuring arc/radius maintenance.
The only part of course measurement requiring a steel straightedge is the calibration course and that is because that must be laid out in a straight line
Lets keep this thread going, but not with wishwashy songs. :)
Another thing the old guys had going for them in the early 80's was watching some REALLY beautiful and extremely fast female runners:
Roxanne Bier.. San Jose..Independence High School
Kim Schnurpfeil.. San Mateo High School & Stanford
Ceci Hopp...Connecticut High School & Stanford
Cory Schubert..San Jose..Del Mar High School & Stanford
Every one of them a knockout.
old guy 67 wrote:
Could you find your results ...I suspected that the Cal 10 had changed their course and/or become a local race...If you could then you would be comparing apples to apples.
I agree that there was far more depth in the early 80s then there is now, there were just way more guys running competitively.
However, my statement that you were comparing apples and oranges was in reference to your comparing of Cal 10 results from the early 1980s, when the race was a big deal, to results from the early 2010s, when it was basically a local race. So I'll stand by my statement, that particular comparison was apples and oranges.
The results for Cal 10 are here, but you'll need to do your own data digging. I believe that the last PA year at Cal 10 was 2005. Not all the links are good:
http://pausatf.org/data/2013/RRResults2013.html