Elite sport isn't for everyone. Overtraining and abuse are different things.
HS XC is not elite sport, wejo... you're just as bad as rojo, only you know how to spell.
Please you get the point. My cousin plays on a state semi finalist football team in Texas . If he gets injured because they are training very hard you might say that comes with the territory.
the main point that overtraining and abuse are different things stands.
I was constantly injured in high school as my body was developing .
Football has a long history of idiot coaches doing things like not allowing their kids to drink water during hot days while training. There’s a fine line between tough and being stupid. Tying a high school girl to the back of a truck is obviously the latter.
That's not an apples to apples comparison though. Unless the DUI happened while driving athletes around, that is not a past offense that is a good predictor as to whether or not a coach will harm athletes.
Would you be OK with a coach who raped a high school athlete and served their time in jail coaching again?
I recognize that "tough coaching" is a more subjective matter and that norms have changed over time, but tying an athlete to a truck was not acceptable 40 years ago.
1) rapists don’t get a second chance. I want to protect kids from abusers.
”tough” coaches I think should. Or parents can decide if that is what they want for their kids.
Hard for me to believe any recent parent went into this blind or there wasn’t a lot of scrutiny on what was going on but I’m not sure because see point #2
2) they have been banned for”life”, one of them is dead, and we don’t know what the were banned for?
this is justice? Or a good system? the allegations should be public . They can use anonymous names if need be.
Let’s pretend tying them to a truck is ok. What about giving the kids medication without the school or the parents (and involvement (also coaching kids to hide it) and continuing to do so after being told by administration to stop.
Let’s pretend tying them to a truck is ok. What about giving the kids medication without the school or the parents (and involvement (also coaching kids to hide it) and continuing to do so after being told by administration to stop.
I recall hearing Larry Bird once say that when he was coaching, he didn’t yell at players because he didn’t like when coaches did it to him. So, one of the greatest NBA players of all time didn’t feel the need to be an abusive a-hole, but some high school loser coach does.
It’s a lot harder to be a Kranick or Phil knight when one of your athletes are not kids with careers and prospects you can ruin instantly. Sometimes a coach needs to be choked
This is so nuts and shows how much of safe sport is performative .
The guy is dead and gets banned?
I'm curious what would have happened if he hadn't died because the school hired a law firm that did an investigation and continued to hire him.
To be honest, I don't have a problem if some guy tied a rope around someone's waist 40 years ago and was thinking pulling her in the car would help her run faster. From what I could tell, it didn't sound like she got injured. Correct me if I'm wrong.
And just stating that I know nothing more than you and what I read in this article.
I'm a little surprised not to see any other stories of interactions between Kranicks and other athletes yet.
I once had to step between Art and a teammate of mine who had just finished a 5k. Art had my teammate by the jersey and was yelling at him about cutting off a Saratoga runner. I remember a teammate of mine and I separating them and saying while I didn't see what happened and my teammate might've been in wrong, if he (Art) had a problem with one of our athletes he needed to take it up w our coach. That was probably the only time I ever spoke to Art.
Never heard anything of the sort about Linda to be fair and the story of Art driving down that would be abductor was and remains impressive. The Kranicks were obviously dedicated, invested coaches who built great programs and helped a lot of athletes out but there were always also reports of questionable actions and hyper strict coaching philosophies.
2) they have been banned for”life”, one of them is dead, and we don’t know what the were banned for?
this is justice? Or a good system? the allegations should be public . They can use anonymous names if need be.
Anonymous isn’t anonymous in sports. If the details were specific, it would not be hard in most cases for people to connect the dots and identify victims and then many of them would not choose to come forward.
Nevertheless, we have more insight into this particular case than most because many victims have come forward publicly and many incidents happened in public. Art and Linda are banned for emotional and physical misconduct. There are public allegations of decades of abuse. We know that a 77 page and 66 page report exist.
Do the nuts and bolts of why they got banned matter? This isn’t a situation of USATF being overly picky, decades of abuse should get coaches banned, even if they didn’t abuse every athlete and some athletes weren’t complaining.
Coaches get reported to USATF/SafeSport all the time and don’t have public action taken against them. Most of the banned coaches have had criminal charges filed against them, there are only a handful of non-criminal and/or non-sexual bans on the list.
I don’t know if USATF intended to ban a dead person or not. Occam’s razor says that the most probable reason USATF banned Art after his death was incompetence, not a trauma-informed decision made in consultation with survivors of his abuse.
The thing USATF should be answering to (but probably won’t) is whether they sat on the case for two years after the investigator completed the report, or if other issues came up that delayed the public posting of the decision.
To be honest, I don't have a problem if some guy tied a rope around someone's waist 40 was thinking pulling her in the car would help her run faster. Correct me if I'm wrong.
This is such an unacceptable thing to think and you should be embarrassed for having uttered it. An incredibly risky action is okay because sheer dumb luck prevailed and no one was injured? Maybe apply that line of thought into some other life situations and see if it still makes sense to you. Try “drunk driving”, for instance.
I didn’t say it was smart or not risky. Im saying if he did this 40 years ago I have no problem with him coaching. Same thing if he had a drunk driving arrest 40 years ago .
Make sense?
My apologies for criticizing Safe Sport if USATF was the one banning him. I thought the whole point of Safe Sport was to have an independent body determine suspensions. Can someone explain to me why USATF acted here.
i thought safe sport handled all these things for them.
(1) No a drunk driving arrest x number of years ago is different than attempted murder x number of years ago
(2) so sorry you don’t know the difference between USATF and SafeSport jfc
There seems to be know acknowledgement of the success these people had - how many view them as legends. I think of lifetime bans as something you give to pure evil.
Rojo, What do you recommend someone do if they are being sexually molested by a grown man who is purporting to coach them? Who does the athlete go to in order to stop the coach from sexual molesting or raping them and then many others? SafeSport is not about criminal justice.
Why do you persist in painting with such a broad brush? SafeSport is not a joke. Ask any woman who has been able to report sexual molestation and worse to SafeSport. It's a relief to have someone to go to to say, "He did this, here's my evidence. Please investigate. Please help me."
I have assisted a woman in another sport make a complaint to SafeSport about a major figure in that sport. SafeSport never even responded.
SafeSport is entirely performative. "We're doing something about the abuse of athletes in sports." Well, what they are doing isn't having any actual effect. How many people do you think have seen the required SafeSport videos and thought, "I learned from that video that I can't abuse kids. That's good to know. I hadn't realized that before." These kinds of programs are never required to show that what they're doing actually changes behavior.
Rojo, What do you recommend someone do if they are being sexually molested by a grown man who is purporting to coach them? Who does the athlete go to in order to stop the coach from sexual molesting or raping them and then many others? SafeSport is not about criminal justice.
Why do you persist in painting with such a broad brush? SafeSport is not a joke. Ask any woman who has been able to report sexual molestation and worse to SafeSport. It's a relief to have someone to go to to say, "He did this, here's my evidence. Please investigate. Please help me."
I have assisted a woman in another sport make a complaint to SafeSport about a major figure in that sport. SafeSport never even responded.
SafeSport is entirely performative. "We're doing something about the abuse of athletes in sports." Well, what they are doing isn't having any actual effect. How many people do you think have seen the required SafeSport videos and thought, "I learned from that video that I can't abuse kids. That's good to know. I hadn't realized that before." These kinds of programs are never required to show that what they're doing actually changes behavior.
What does SafeSport have to do with anything? The ruling was made by the USATF