“B-tier” maybe until this year. Look at the margin on 4th place and the best of the Ethiopians/Fisher etc. If you want to downgrade Hocker you can look at Jakob’s Paris margin but have to acknowledge the top 2 in the 10K didn’t run, and that second place was not in some astounding form.
I’m not downgrading Hocker, just showing the other guy how we can make comparisons all day to make irrelevant points, but the splits don’t lie. Nobody has closed as fast and as impressively as Jakob other than Bekele.
He closes fast in slow races because he has superior endurance - more in the tank - and not because he has a great kick. He doesn't. But all of this conjecture is intended to find a consolation prize for Ingebrigtsen now that he is being consistently beaten - especially over his main distance, the 1500. This thread is poring over the career of a now has-been.
He was coming off injury and this year’s WC races were not reflective of his ability if healthy. That said, if the 5k had been run the same way/pace and Jakob was healthy, he still would have lost. 52 at the end of a 12:58 is not in his wheelhouse.
I’m not downgrading Hocker, just showing the other guy how we can make comparisons all day to make irrelevant points, but the splits don’t lie. Nobody has closed as fast and as impressively as Jakob other than Bekele.
He closes fast in slow races because he has superior endurance - more in the tank - and not because he has a great kick. He doesn't. But all of this conjecture is intended to find a consolation prize for Ingebrigtsen now that he is being consistently beaten - especially over his main distance, the 1500. This thread is poring over the career of a now has-been.
So he doesn’t have a great kick in the 5000m despite having the best last 400 and 1000 in a championship out of any runner ever? I think you need to elaborate more. Why has nobody ever closed as fast as him off similar finishes over the last 3k?
Farah's record of championship titles finished with a kick says otherwise.
No.
Check the finishing times.
Berlin 2009, Farah finished in 56+ (13:19).
Farah repeatedly outkicked his competitors. As a result he has many more global titles than Ingebrigtsen does in the 5k and in the 10k (in which Ingebrigtsen has none). Farah is the far greater distance runner. His kick produced many more global titles than Ingebrigtsen has.
His better finishes came in very slow races. Look how well he did in a 12:58 race in the last world's.
A kick isn't a designated distance; it's an acceleration of pace, usually at the end of a race. His best finishes were in a sustained drive for home and not a sudden acceleration; if he had real kick he wouldn't have been repeatedly outsprinted by his competitors over his favoured distance, the 1500m. He has competed far fewer occasions over the 5k; the better competitive record is from those who ran it more often and won more often - and usually with a kick. Bekele and Farah are obvious examples. But El G was also better in Athens than Ingebrigtsen has shown, by outkicking prime Bekele. The measure of a great kick isn't measured by time but the way a runner disposes of their competition at the finish. He isn't the greatest. And now there is no chance he will be.
Jakob isn't a poppy of any kind; he's an athlete whose career is in sharp decline through injury. Threads like this are mere fantasizing by his fans.
Sharp decline... I will remind you of your words.
And he a poppy way taller than you ever were. Hence your jealousy.
The last world's show how far he has fallen. His Achilles injuries remain present and he will always be facing the likelihood now of further injury. He will never achieve his former heights.
Suggestions such as yours about jealousy are baffling; I have no aspiration to be a great distance runner. I judge what he does as I would any other well-known sportsman - like a tennis player, boxer or golfer etc. (Actually, runners aren't very well known these days). There are many athletes I admire - and respect more than him - but most of what I argue here is for a realism about him that most running fans lack.
He was coming off injury and this year’s WC races were not reflective of his ability if healthy. That said, if the 5k had been run the same way/pace and Jakob was healthy, he still would have lost. 52 at the end of a 12:58 is not in his wheelhouse.
maybe, maybe not. he didn't need a 52. He would have been at the front of the line, with Hocker back in 12th.
Jakob would have needed somewhere around 53.6 to hold him off.
He was coming off injury and this year’s WC races were not reflective of his ability if healthy. That said, if the 5k had been run the same way/pace and Jakob was healthy, he still would have lost. 52 at the end of a 12:58 is not in his wheelhouse.
maybe, maybe not. he didn't need a 52. He would have been at the front of the line, with Hocker back in 12th.
Jakob would have needed somewhere around 53.6 to hold him off.
for reference, Jakob ran a 53.6 in a 13:02 race, back in 2019.
Gebrhiwet came with him, and those two had a gap at the bell thanks to a 60.9 penultimate lap by Ingebrigtsen. Gebrhiwet went around Ingebrigtsen on the back straight, and though he slid in front of the young Norwegian, he could not carve open a gap. Ingebrigtsen hung on Gebrhiwet’s shoulder, and they battled around the final turn, but Gebrhiwet eventually opened up a small gap on the home straight, one he would maintain to the finish, winning thanks to a terrific 53.3 final lap (53.6 for Ingebrigtsen).
His better finishes came in very slow races. Look how well he did in a 12:58 race in the last world's.
A kick isn't a designated distance; it's an acceleration of pace, usually at the end of a race. His best finishes were in a sustained drive for home and not a sudden acceleration; if he had real kick he wouldn't have been repeatedly outsprinted by his competitors over his favoured distance, the 1500m. He has competed far fewer occasions over the 5k; the better competitive record is from those who ran it more often and won more often - and usually with a kick. Bekele and Farah are obvious examples. But El G was also better in Athens than Ingebrigtsen has shown, by outkicking prime Bekele. The measure of a great kick isn't measured by time but the way a runner disposes of their competition at the finish. He isn't the greatest. And now there is no chance he will be.
What a load of nonsense. The splits don’t lie. Jakob has the fastest last 400, 1000, 2000, and 3000 out of any runner ever at a global 5000m championship, so he has the best kick ever. None of your word salad will change that.
Farah repeatedly outkicked his competitors. As a result he has many more global titles than Ingebrigtsen does in the 5k and in the 10k (in which Ingebrigtsen has none). Farah is the far greater distance runner. His kick produced many more global titles than Ingebrigtsen has.
Let’s stick to comparing last lap finishes vs final time. It’s better than getting into Farah’s career, in which political forces allowed him to dope because certain forces in the West thought it might help their immigration agenda.
maybe, maybe not. he didn't need a 52. He would have been at the front of the line, with Hocker back in 12th.
Jakob would have needed somewhere around 53.6 to hold him off.
for reference, Jakob ran a 53.6 in a 13:02 race, back in 2019.
Gebrhiwet came with him, and those two had a gap at the bell thanks to a 60.9 penultimate lap by Ingebrigtsen. Gebrhiwet went around Ingebrigtsen on the back straight, and though he slid in front of the young Norwegian, he could not carve open a gap. Ingebrigtsen hung on Gebrhiwet’s shoulder, and they battled around the final turn, but Gebrhiwet eventually opened up a small gap on the home straight, one he would maintain to the finish, winning thanks to a terrific 53.3 final lap (53.6 for Ingebrigtsen).
Meh, Jakob was still a teen in that race.
However, at the WCs it was obvious Cole a bit more in him if he needed it. Jakob has never run a 52 in a race that fast. 53.3 wouldn’t have done it. He needs to show us a 52 in a sub 13 race. Jakob is great, but as with other runners, people engage too much in what they think a guy could do rather than what he’s actually demonstrated. Cole simply has better leg turnover.
for reference, Jakob ran a 53.6 in a 13:02 race, back in 2019.
Gebrhiwet came with him, and those two had a gap at the bell thanks to a 60.9 penultimate lap by Ingebrigtsen. Gebrhiwet went around Ingebrigtsen on the back straight, and though he slid in front of the young Norwegian, he could not carve open a gap. Ingebrigtsen hung on Gebrhiwet’s shoulder, and they battled around the final turn, but Gebrhiwet eventually opened up a small gap on the home straight, one he would maintain to the finish, winning thanks to a terrific 53.3 final lap (53.6 for Ingebrigtsen).
Meh, Jakob was still a teen in that race.
However, at the WCs it was obvious Cole a bit more in him if he needed it. Jakob has never run a 52 in a race that fast. 53.3 wouldn’t have done it. He needs to show us a 52 in a sub 13 race. Jakob is great, but as with other runners, people engage too much in what they think a guy could do rather than what he’s actually demonstrated. Cole simply has better leg turnover.
53.3 would do it. Because Jakob is always near the front at the bell, while Hocker is a second and a half behind. He can make up that deficit on Kimeli. Not so easily on Jakob.
He was coming off injury and this year’s WC races were not reflective of his ability if healthy. That said, if the 5k had been run the same way/pace and Jakob was healthy, he still would have lost. 52 at the end of a 12:58 is not in his wheelhouse.
Why do people believe this? We’ve seen him close other races in 52 and we know 12:58 is nowhere near his max (12:48 PB from four years ago).