Ultra marathon runners are NOT REAL ATHLETES. They are glorified hikers that are masquerading as athletes just dreading the day when a REAL ATHLETE decides to run an Ultra and reset the record books.
Jim Walmsley set for example his track PRs 2012 as 22yo.- 3000m steeple 8:41,05 , 5000m 13:52,87
3000m as 20yo - 8:03,58
Not good enough to be called a „real athlete“ ?
We can speculate how fast he was able to run at later years, but he decided to leave track after 2012 for whatever reasons ( most likely it was passion for trail running )
tbh, 13:52 is pretty meh. Even in my 40s, I'm still running 15-high. 13:52 is good, but that's not really real athlete caliber. (so ain't I) Real athletes are the one who has a shot at making it to the Olympic/WC. Otherwise you're just a hobbyjogger or faster hikers.
This site is full of people with niche knowledge and it can be hard to step out of this. The average track fan has no idea what a good woman's 800 meter time is, or how fast the men can close in the 1500. To grow the sport of running you need average fans showing interest in the spectacle in front of them. This is what has happened at UTMB where every day people are interested in and inspired by UTMB. There is no such equivalent in the USA. This interest and developing culture also helped spawn HOKA and helped Solomon grow even more. It is hard to convey how mainstream and big UTMB is in Europe. You could argue that it is currently the greatest running event globally outside the Olympics and World Championships. It is certainly far more compelling than global marathons. This is not the hippy inspired trail running in the western USA, where the power hiker analogy is entertaining. UTMB is full of athletes who are elite in what they do. Not track elite, but elite at long days in the mountains. Elite track is incredibly compelling to the knowledgable fan, but UTMB has broadened interest in the general sense. It is too bad that our national parks have such strict access rules, because a race through the High Serra, Tetons or Grand Canyon, with similar production value could be a big draw in the USA. Hardrock is capped numerically and Western States is through drab scenery. The second tier events are pretty meh.
it is a well-known fact that teachers are the whiniest profession of all. because there are so many of them, they use their collective whingeiness to try to advantage themselves.
this is completely different to an ultra-runner who does not whine about what they signed up for. instead they just get on with it, deal with some adversity and get the satisfaction of completion at the end.
this is the opposite to a teacher, who chooses to be a teacher, then spends much of their time whining on how bad their conditions are and how they should get a pay increase greater than inflation (when no-one else gets a pay increase like this) and then walks off the job to protest and take strike action.
Now this can be coming a combo of LR basement dwellers two favorite hobbies. Bashing teachers and ultra runners at the same time.
Yeah I guess I didn't really think that one through.
As an update to what I thought was a pretty good analogy, I texted my friend (the Northrop nerd) what I had posted and he laughed and said any STEM major from our university could do his job.
So I guess in that case Jim and Killian should be dominating road marathons. Or maybe I should be programming drone strikes?
Truth be told I'm too busy whining about 14 weeks paid vacation every year and 7 hour work days to even consider a career change at this point.
Imagine if the beast Kipchoge ran UTMB this weekend. It would be insane. He’d probably run it in 18 and change hours. He could take a nap and Tom Evans, Francois Dhahene, Ben Dhiman, etc would still have a hard time catching up to him. It wouldn’t be fair even. Puppi and Eli Hemming may cry as well in CCC. How amazing do you think Kipchoge would do at UTMB events?
you are just creating this thread to get some attention for yourself. kipchoge can even win a marathon like boston with a couple of "hills" in it. you're of sub-par intelligence.
Imagine if the beast Kipchoge ran UTMB this weekend. It would be insane. He’d probably run it in 18 and change hours. He could take a nap and Tom Evans, Francois Dhahene, Ben Dhiman, etc would still have a hard time catching up to him. It wouldn’t be fair even. Puppi and Eli Hemming may cry as well in CCC. How amazing do you think Kipchoge would do at UTMB events?
I will quote Tom Evans, he actually won UTMB this year and is a 13:4x lad.. "the top Africans that run marathons would win here."
It's the reason why all the fastest runners on the course are winning - Jim Walmsley, Tom Evans, Ruth Croft (ran NCAA Division I at Portland), Francesco Puppi, Kilian Jornet, you name it.
I just raced at UTMB, granted I ran the shorter race. It's the best event on the planet, but there's a reason why fast track times directly correlate to dominating UTMB.
Imagine if the beast Kipchoge ran UTMB this weekend. It would be insane. He’d probably run it in 18 and change hours. He could take a nap and Tom Evans, Francois Dhahene, Ben Dhiman, etc would still have a hard time catching up to him. It wouldn’t be fair even. Puppi and Eli Hemming may cry as well in CCC. How amazing do you think Kipchoge would do at UTMB events?
Imagine if Bolt the beast ran a marathon? Sub 1h 45 would be a jog for him and winning UTMB would be mere long stroll in the park.
Except it’s not like that at all. Running is running. Aerobic base is aerobic base. Trail running is a skill that people can pick up in a couple months or less. You cannot go from being a 2:15 marathoner to a 2:01 marathoner. That is an impossible progression. Go ahead, enjoy trail running, it’s your thing. Same with the WNBA, some people enjoy watching layups and bounce passes. But it is intellectually dishonest if someone were claim that LeBron James would not dominate simply because the women play a differently structured game. €20,000 to the winner of UTMB and a Hoka sponsorship isn’t going to attract the top talented road runners in the world to sharpen their trail skills. But now with Nike in the game with OCG, they might incentive their athletes a little differently in the next couple years, so who knows.
Also, funny thing is that Jornet did run a road 10k in 2020 and it turns out he has the skill level of a hobby jogger . As far as trail runners go, Jornet is the tip of the spear. Looks like we are routinely seeing better ultra performances out of really road guys making the transition to the trails, than trail guys trying to run on the roads….
Hills are Kipchoge's limit. Boston proved it. Paris was the final word.
He's limited.
This is a reductive take. Do you say the same thing regarding the DNF’s attached to Jornet/Walmsley/Roche?
Boston - wasn’t the hills. During the race the announcers were pointing to a lower leg issue because his form and cadence was clearly off, Kipchoge confirmed this after the race. Probably played a factor into him missing a bottle grab around the same time.
Paris - not the hills. Withdrew due to a back injury. He and his family had also spent the previous 6 months receiving death threats constantly. Add on the pressure of becoming the first ever 3 time Olympic marathon champion at the age of 39.
It’s a little strange how deeply you trail guys cling to the belief that the current top trail runners are a special breed and the sport is only for a select few of a weirdos. “Fueling” and “elevation gain” are your only fallback excuses when someone hypothetically poses whether some of history’s best distance runners can rival today’s ultra trail runners.
everything that ultra has learned regarding fueling has been taken from the Tour de France and marathon runners. Kenyans are training at altitude year round, running 40-50km’s a day, doing strength and plyometrics 3 times per week. They are hammering their quads, calves, and bodies up and down the mountain hills in Kenya. Thousands of them are dedicating their lives to training in the hopes of a better life and chasing the carrot of life changing money. It is always between the Kenyans and the Ethiopians as to who dominates at the world cross country championships. The same guys who crush it in cross country are also running well on the track and the roads. Running is running.
If some major brand(Nike, adidas) ever decides to change that money carrot to the trails of UTMB, Western States, you granola eating 2 liter coca cola drinking gate keeping weirdos are cooked
You think Kipchoge will be less susceptable to having leg/back issues when racing up and down mountains over rocky terrain?
You think Kipchoge will be less susceptable to having leg/back issues when racing up and down mountains over rocky terrain?
**power hiking.
utilizing poles to walk up a hill at 19 minute mile pace usually sees little to no injuries. Lot of retired people from all over the world accomplish these hikes at UTMB