Rita’s message has some validity but also has many holes. The largest problem is the messenger. Rita is the largest Karen in the game and everyone that has had any dealings with her know this. She presents this “girl gang” thing for recruiting while she abuses the females on her team.
The argument about about too many foreign athletes is legit. The argument that Alabama kids are losing opportunities is bogus and she knows it. Why doesn’t she sweep in and provide all these unfortunate Alabama kids scholarships? Because these kids don’t exist.
& I'm sick of LRC never acknowledging race even when it stares you lot in the eyes.
This stuff hasn't been in the forefront in the way that it is now. It's ok to acknowledge that. I didn't say force American kids to go to bad schools. You're overlooking strong academic D3 schools. Nobody is saying your kid can't attend a state school a fraction of your taxes go to. Nobody is taking the schools from you.
My point is that this is what the NCAA system is now. International athletes are in every sport. If that's your issue then go after it.
Anyways, everything I said on this thread was taken out of context because I dared to name why this stuff is getting such strong reactions. I didn't even take a strong stance on it & I didn't say anyone was taking something from any of you. It might be that the NCAA has it all wrong but they've had it wrong for a while now. They've let power conferences/NIL explode athletic budgets & ruin local competition. Maybe it could be better for kids to compete regionally whatever this stuff looks like in the future. That's all. I don't think if we're doing the taxes thing that we should pay for your kid to go to a state school & go fly to meets all around the country if they don't have to. It's all broken. Do we need a million BU entries or can we have meets all around the country.
You would have to be blind, or dumb, to not understand why outrage in international athletes is at an all time high.
IT IS BECAUSE MOST D1 TEAMS ARE CUTTING HALF THEIR ROSTER BECAUSE OF NEW NCAA ROSTER LIMITS!!!
So thousands of D1 track athletes are losing their roster spot, and high school runners have 50% of the number of opportunities to run in college compared to years past. And all this is happening at the moment when international representation in the NCAA is at an all time high. You
Those strong D3 academic schools you mention cost $95,000 per year.
The "myth" of all these lost opportunities is just comical. There are still plenty of opportunities for american kids. The catch is that they are going to have to readjust their expectations of what level they are. Most of the kids that are losing opportunities were probably not really D1. D2, D3, NAIA, and JUCO are going to have plenty of roster spots. Most kids are not D1 and never were.
On another note it is worth pointing out the insane expectations of the people on this board. You guys want results but then you flip an want to only allow certain groups of people to compete. You cannot have both. If having Americans is the goal then winning should be secondary. If winning is the goal then coaches should be able to get whoever they want. At the D1 level, winning matters. Coaches job security depends on it. They should be able to get anyone that can help them achieve that goal.
The main issue I have is using tax payer money to recruit international athletes. Her tweet suggests this is happening at some level in the NCAA.
Agents, NIL, profit-sharing,etc... this all sounds like a professional league rather than institutions of higher learning. The coach should care for the student before the athlete and they should be judged on more than just wins/conference championships.
The main issue I have is using tax payer money to recruit international athletes. Her tweet suggests this is happening at some level in the NCAA.
Agents, NIL, profit-sharing,etc... this all sounds like a professional league rather than institutions of higher learning. The coach should care for the student before the athlete and they should be judged on more than just wins/conference championships.
You are correct. They ARE professional sports. This is the fallout from everyone wanting athletes to get paid. College sports at the highest level will only continue to look more and more like professional sports in the coming years. Opportunities will continue to disappear at the D1 level. I agree that institutions of higher learning should not be in the business of professional sports. They have lost the point of sports which is to add to the college experience.
That being said they should also have autonomy to handle their finances they way they see fit and continue to have academic freedom. Part of that is recruiting the students that fit what they offer at their school regardless of country of origin. The US benefits greatly from the international students that go on to great things in science, medicine, etc... If they lose those the ability to do that then higher education will lose their entire reason for existing.
I don't think it's unreasonable to want American athletes to compete at American universities against athletes their own age and not 10 years older than them. But it is unreasonable to act like American kids deserve a roster spot on a D1 school simply for being American. There still needs to be some performance standard for those universities. This isn't a charity.
The main issue I have is using tax payer money to recruit international athletes. Her tweet suggests this is happening at some level in the NCAA.
Agents, NIL, profit-sharing,etc... this all sounds like a professional league rather than institutions of higher learning. The coach should care for the student before the athlete and they should be judged on more than just wins/conference championships.
You are correct. They ARE professional sports. This is the fallout from everyone wanting athletes to get paid. College sports at the highest level will only continue to look more and more like professional sports in the coming years. Opportunities will continue to disappear at the D1 level. I agree that institutions of higher learning should not be in the business of professional sports. They have lost the point of sports which is to add to the college experience.
That being said they should also have autonomy to handle their finances they way they see fit and continue to have academic freedom. Part of that is recruiting the students that fit what they offer at their school regardless of country of origin. The US benefits greatly from the international students that go on to great things in science, medicine, etc... If they lose those the ability to do that then higher education will lose their entire reason for existing.
Your first paragraph is correct. 100% agree.
Your second paragraph doesn't fit. Limiting or preventing international athletes in sports is not limiting academic freedom. Those athletes are not being recruited for academic reasons. They are here purely and simply to help the school win at their sport. Btw, I am not judging the merits of this, just pointing it out.
The game has changed because of what you wrote in paragraph 1 and it's not going back to what it was. The fallout will be what it is -> fewer D1 opportunities and less and less interest in non-revenue sports.
I competed years ago in a power 4 school that had many international students and they were all great people and some very good students. At the time I didn't really think much about it. Fast forward 20 years now and I am completely against this, especially for large public state schools. I want to see kids from my own state and area be given chances to get into the school and a chance to participate in track and field. I can careless if my alma mater wins a trophy at the NCAA becuse of a whole team of foreign atheltes. The problem with these athletes are not only they taking spots from the general student body, but they dont stay around and be productive tax paying members of the state and improve our GDP. They are not getting jobs and working down town and then giving back to the community in some way. I talked to an member of the athletic department several years ago and he also told me the problem with these international students is they also dont donate crap for money when they leave or have been out of the program for several years.
You are correct. They ARE professional sports. This is the fallout from everyone wanting athletes to get paid. College sports at the highest level will only continue to look more and more like professional sports in the coming years. Opportunities will continue to disappear at the D1 level. I agree that institutions of higher learning should not be in the business of professional sports. They have lost the point of sports which is to add to the college experience.
That being said they should also have autonomy to handle their finances they way they see fit and continue to have academic freedom. Part of that is recruiting the students that fit what they offer at their school regardless of country of origin. The US benefits greatly from the international students that go on to great things in science, medicine, etc... If they lose those the ability to do that then higher education will lose their entire reason for existing.
Your first paragraph is correct. 100% agree.
Your second paragraph doesn't fit. Limiting or preventing international athletes in sports is not limiting academic freedom. Those athletes are not being recruited for academic reasons. They are here purely and simply to help the school win at their sport. Btw, I am not judging the merits of this, just pointing it out.
The game has changed because of what you wrote in paragraph 1 and it's not going back to what it was. The fallout will be what it is -> fewer D1 opportunities and less and less interest in non-revenue sports.
The point of the second paragraph I may not have made clear. If we put restrictions on internationals in athletics then it could spill over to academics as well. That is where the academic freedom comes into play. If the government can tell a school which students they can admit then it is a short step to telling them what they can teach. Higher education does not work without academic autonomy. No government can be trusted to say what knowledge is ok to be taught and what is not. I know that this can lead down a lot of rabbit holes but I do think that schools must maintain their ability to make there own decisions on who they admit and what they teach.
I competed years ago in a power 4 school that had many international students and they were all great people and some very good students. At the time I didn't really think much about it. Fast forward 20 years now and I am completely against this, especially for large public state schools. I want to see kids from my own state and area be given chances to get into the school and a chance to participate in track and field. I can careless if my alma mater wins a trophy at the NCAA becuse of a whole team of foreign atheltes. The problem with these athletes are not only they taking spots from the general student body, but they dont stay around and be productive tax paying members of the state and improve our GDP. They are not getting jobs and working down town and then giving back to the community in some way. I talked to an member of the athletic department several years ago and he also told me the problem with these international students is they also dont donate crap for money when they leave or have been out of the program for several years.
Several of your points are just not accurate. 41% of international students stay in the US and get jobs after graduation. When broken down by degree level 17% of bachelors, 50% of masters degree, and 75% of PhD degree stay after graduation. The more education they get in the states the more likely they are to stay and contribute to GDP. As far as them contributing to GDP while in school roughly 70% work part time and pay taxes on that pay while going to school as undergraduates. That number goes up significantly with masters and PhD candidates. These students are not a drain on our resources at all. In fact we get more out of them than they get for themselves in terms of work, results (athletically or academically), paying into our system in the form of taxes, enriching their campuses, and a number of other ways that would be hard to quantify. FYI none of the out of state students contribute any more to your local and state economy than the international students. By that logic only kids from your state should be allowed to go to your in state school. Also another little truth bomb. 67% of all the colleges and universities in the United States are private schools.
I competed years ago in a power 4 school that had many international students and they were all great people and some very good students. At the time I didn't really think much about it. Fast forward 20 years now and I am completely against this, especially for large public state schools. I want to see kids from my own state and area be given chances to get into the school and a chance to participate in track and field. I can careless if my alma mater wins a trophy at the NCAA becuse of a whole team of foreign atheltes. The problem with these athletes are not only they taking spots from the general student body, but they dont stay around and be productive tax paying members of the state and improve our GDP. They are not getting jobs and working down town and then giving back to the community in some way. I talked to an member of the athletic department several years ago and he also told me the problem with these international students is they also dont donate crap for money when they leave or have been out of the program for several years.
it’s all about results. Hire good coaches to win. Those coaches need to win to keep their jobs, get bonuses. Maybe they want to win to keep moving up the proverbial ladder. This is what collegiate sports are at the cut throat top. The entire thing is unsustainable as it’s being patched together year to year. One thing you did not mention cost wise is the medical care some of the international students exploit. Costly.
You would have to be blind, or dumb, to not understand why outrage in international athletes is at an all time high.
IT IS BECAUSE MOST D1 TEAMS ARE CUTTING HALF THEIR ROSTER BECAUSE OF NEW NCAA ROSTER LIMITS!!!
So thousands of D1 track athletes are losing their roster spot, and high school runners have 50% of the number of opportunities to run in college compared to years past. And all this is happening at the moment when international representation in the NCAA is at an all time high. You
Those strong D3 academic schools you mention cost $95,000 per year.
The "myth" of all these lost opportunities is just comical. There are still plenty of opportunities for american kids. The catch is that they are going to have to readjust their expectations of what level they are. Most of the kids that are losing opportunities were probably not really D1. D2, D3, NAIA, and JUCO are going to have plenty of roster spots. Most kids are not D1 and never were.
On another note it is worth pointing out the insane expectations of the people on this board. You guys want results but then you flip an want to only allow certain groups of people to compete. You cannot have both. If having Americans is the goal then winning should be secondary. If winning is the goal then coaches should be able to get whoever they want. At the D1 level, winning matters. Coaches job security depends on it. They should be able to get anyone that can help them achieve that goal.
It is absolutely not a myth. Your obviously have not even read the previous posts here because your copy-paste pro-international arguments have already been addressed multiple times.
What is so hard to understand about the fact that if a public state school can only have 10 XC runners/scholarships, and half of those are given to foreigners than that is 5 spots taken away from they kids in that state? Those spots don't just "move somewhere else" They are gone. These are not 10:00 3200m guys I am talking about either. I know 4:10/9:00 guys in SEC states who are being told they don't have a spot at their state school next year. This makes logical sense because obviously they can't compete with a 13:40 28 year old man. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
In regards to D3, they DO NOT give athletic scholarships, so stop even bringing them up. They are not an "opportunity" if you are paying for the privilege.
And with JUCOs NAIA, ect. WHY SHOULD AMERICAN KIDS HAVE TO "READJUST THEIR EXPECTATIONS" IN THEIR COUNTRY TO ACCOMMODATE FOREIGNERS" Yes I am yelling through my screen because this idea absolutely engages me. NO. It is our country, our schools, funded by our taxes. There will be no readjusting. If you are a state champion, you should be able to run for your state school. Period. Currently the 9:05ish state champ in many SEC states cannot and that is DIRECT RESULT of being displaced by internationals.
Stop trying to push this BS that Americans just need to accept being treated like trash in our own country, we are all tired of it.
I don't think it's unreasonable to want American athletes to compete at American universities against athletes their own age and not 10 years older than them. But it is unreasonable to act like American kids deserve a roster spot on a D1 school simply for being American. There still needs to be some performance standard for those universities. This isn't a charity.
I don't think anyone has suggested handing out D1 full rides to 10:00 3200m dudes, so let's not straw man.
With the new roster limits, I know first hand that SEC schools will not even talk to a current junior who has not run at least 8:55, even if they are the best kid in their state.
I personally know two 4:11-4:13 milers who were told they could not even WALK-ON to their in-state SEC school (keep in mind these kids are both top 5 recruits in the state), much less get any type of scholarship. This school has a lot of internationals as well. Do those kids not "deserve" a roster spot?
Respectfully, I do not think some of you guys realize how bad this issue has gotten here on the ground. There is a reason a lot of us are so upset and fed-up.
The univ of Texas at Austin is 90 percent students from the state of Texas. Now do they have foreign and out of state athletes in sports yes, but this is how it should be for a large public institution! You allow your residents to take precedent. Don’t want some clown from Eastern Europe taking spots of Texans even if they are superior students
I competed years ago in a power 4 school that had many international students and they were all great people and some very good students. At the time I didn't really think much about it. Fast forward 20 years now and I am completely against this, especially for large public state schools. I want to see kids from my own state and area be given chances to get into the school and a chance to participate in track and field. I can careless if my alma mater wins a trophy at the NCAA becuse of a whole team of foreign atheltes. The problem with these athletes are not only they taking spots from the general student body, but they dont stay around and be productive tax paying members of the state and improve our GDP. They are not getting jobs and working down town and then giving back to the community in some way. I talked to an member of the athletic department several years ago and he also told me the problem with these international students is they also dont donate crap for money when they leave or have been out of the program for several years.
Several of your points are just not accurate. 41% of international students stay in the US and get jobs after graduation. When broken down by degree level 17% of bachelors, 50% of masters degree, and 75% of PhD degree stay after graduation. The more education they get in the states the more likely they are to stay and contribute to GDP. As far as them contributing to GDP while in school roughly 70% work part time and pay taxes on that pay while going to school as undergraduates. That number goes up significantly with masters and PhD candidates. These students are not a drain on our resources at all. In fact we get more out of them than they get for themselves in terms of work, results (athletically or academically), paying into our system in the form of taxes, enriching their campuses, and a number of other ways that would be hard to quantify. FYI none of the out of state students contribute any more to your local and state economy than the international students. By that logic only kids from your state should be allowed to go to your in state school. Also another little truth bomb. 67% of all the colleges and universities in the United States are private schools.
Really interesting points and I’d love to read more. Do you a cite for this?