Enough random carnage happens in marathons that eventually he'll knock one out of the park when the east African contenders either drop out(Chebet and Lemma yesterday) or have subpar days. It's a matter of time if he stays consistent. Maybe it'll take a weak field to win(like Rupp winning Chicago), but I think if he sticks with it he'll win one.
....
I'm not talking about getting lucky like you're thinking or JUST staying consistent, if he STAYS healthy I can see Connor eventually running 2:03:30 - 2:04:15 and earning his podium spot.
He’ll get there. I hope he runs Berlin or Valencia and not Chicago, for a very realistic shot. Of course Hall will probably say his 2:06 is better….
He is still one of the all time greats though. Please list who is better besides Rupp and Hall? Spare me the championships of old, as marathon running is so much deeper than it was in the 70s and 80s.
I have tremendous respect for both Rupp and Hall. Hall’s brief career inspired the next generation with what is actually possible. But I find his comments about the shoes to be douchy. Why did he neglect to mention that his PR was with a Hurricane force tailwind where the point to point is an huge advantage and that he took gray area thyroid medication?
Can we not just celebrate a 2:05 and damn near on the podium, but for the two African guys who didn’t want to do any of the work over the final 10k? Mantz was 24 seconds behind one of the best marathoners in the world. Not too shabby. A 2:04 is within reach…
“Hurricane force tailwind”? This is why I’m here. The hyperbolic attempts to elevate Mantz while dishonoring his predecessors need to be countered.
On the day Hall ran 2:04, the women’s winner ran 2:22:36. That shows the effect of the tailwind is overblown.
These American runners were all better than Mantz.
Frank Shorter Boston Billy Rodgers Alberto Salazar Khalid Khannouchi Mebrahtom "Meb" Keflezighi Ryan Hall Galen Rupp
Mantz is in the second tier with Abdi Abdirahman and Dathan Ritzenhein. Very good company.
Respect the predecessors.
I wouldn't agree with all of those as there's serious questions about Khannouchi and Salazar. But Meb won Boston and New York in an era that was as strong as today, and he won an Olympic silver medal! Plus he made the podium three more times at majora. Mantz can't compete with those achievements.
And say what you like about the lack of depth in Shorter's era, but he was competing against state-sponsored dopers and still won an Olympic gold and silver.
Mantz has an amazing time under his belt, and he'll get the national record but his best result is 4th in a solid but unspectacular field. He was only the third non-African at the Olympics last year. He needs a big result, a major win if he wants to be in the conversation with Rupp, Meb, and Shorter.
You are out of your mind. Rupp is a much better athlete than Mantz. Rupp is likely the best long distance runner you will ever see. Amazing times from the Mile to the Marathon and no Super shoes. Do not forget that He won Olympic medals. Mantz is doing well, but still far away from Rupp. I wanna see Mantz break 2:08 without super shoes.
“Hurricane force tailwind”? This is why I’m here. The hyperbolic attempts to elevate Mantz while dishonoring his predecessors need to be countered.
On the day Hall ran 2:04, the women’s winner ran 2:22:36. That shows the effect of the tailwind is overblown.
These American runners were all better than Mantz.
Frank Shorter Boston Billy Rodgers Alberto Salazar Khalid Khannouchi Mebrahtom "Meb" Keflezighi Ryan Hall Galen Rupp
Mantz is in the second tier with Abdi Abdirahman and Dathan Ritzenhein. Very good company.
Respect the predecessors.
I wouldn't agree with all of those as there's serious questions about Khannouchi and Salazar. But Meb won Boston and New York in an era that was as strong as today, and he won an Olympic silver medal! Plus he made the podium three more times at majora. Mantz can't compete with those achievements.
And say what you like about the lack of depth in Shorter's era, but he was competing against state-sponsored dopers and still won an Olympic gold and silver.
Mantz has an amazing time under his belt, and he'll get the national record but his best result is 4th in a solid but unspectacular field. He was only the third non-African at the Olympics last year. He needs a big result, a major win if he wants to be in the conversation with Rupp, Meb, and Shorter.
Good post. I actually would give it to Meb as the best ever. Rupp is right there. And, yes, Mantz needs a major win and/or Olympic medal to be considered “on the podium” for all time greats, but even if he does it and runs 2:03 to boot, it will still be discounted. Rupp had superior shoes when he medaled fyi.
You are out of your mind. Rupp is a much better athlete than Mantz. Rupp is likely the best long distance runner you will ever see. Amazing times from the Mile to the Marathon and no Super shoes. Do not forget that He won Olympic medals. Mantz is doing well, but still far away from Rupp. I wanna see Mantz break 2:08 without super shoes.
No question Rupp is the better overall “runner,” given his 5000 & 10,000 track credentials and medals, though he will forever be associated with a “gray zone” coach.
All of these comparisons are really stupid, over generations because of depth, over courses because a course like Boston can run either very fast or very slow depending on the year, or across times, because, no doubt the technology is better. How much better, nobody can really say. I still think Mantz breaks 2:07 yesterday without the shoes, but we’ll never know.
Mantz can run within 800m of the best with his A game
that translates to 203 on a fast course
and that should be the propriety.
AR has to mean bucks, he could even run just under the old record, and keep slicing it off for more cash bonuses, and continual press. like the pole vaulters do.... like 10 world records a cm at a time.
realistically, with the window only open for so long, he can set the record twice or something.
You are out of your mind. Rupp is a much better athlete than Mantz. Rupp is likely the best long distance runner you will ever see. Amazing times from the Mile to the Marathon and no Super shoes. Do not forget that He won Olympic medals. Mantz is doing well, but still far away from Rupp. I wanna see Mantz break 2:08 without super shoes.
Rupp literally was the first to wear super shoes and before they were available to the public.
Mantz can run within 800m of the best with his A game
that translates to 203 on a fast course
and that should be the propriety.
AR has to mean bucks, he could even run just under the old record, and keep slicing it off for more cash bonuses, and continual press. like the pole vaulters do.... like 10 world records a cm at a time.
realistically, with the window only open for so long, he can set the record twice or something.
203 is the number.
then look at a major podium, it's 30 meters away.
I think you are right. And it’s very conceivable a guy who can run 59:15 in the half on a not totally pancake flat course can string together a 1:02:00 and a 1:01:55. I wouldn’t say Mantz’s run yesterday is worth a 2:03, but he’s definitely in the 2:04s on a flat course w no slight headwind.
Mantz should really run Berlin Marathon. With pacers and a good group he can go even faster.
I'd love to see more top Americans run international races. But the money isn't there. They'll get far more in appearance fees at NYC/Chicago than Berlin or Valencia. These marathoners have extremely limited opportunities to race. They have to be very picky.
The 2025 Boston Marathon was the fastest since 2011. Arguably the most talented field in Boston Marathon history. Understanding that weather, conditions, shoes, all play a factor, Conner's time would have won him every Boston Marathon in the past 13 editions.
Meh.
Ignoring weather and shoes is a big qualifying factor there.
The shoes have also progressed since then. (Unless you would choose 2023 Adidas over 2025 Nikes? Don't make me laugh.)
Mantz's fourth place performance was what it was, and should be understood as such: a minor-placing performance, not comparable to any historical winning performance in the event.
Meb won Boston and New York in an era that was as strong as today, and he won an Olympic silver medal! Plus he made the podium three more times at majora. Mantz can't compete with those achievements.
Meb is clearly far more accomplished than Mantz -- for now, and likely forever.
Meb:
Olympic silver - 2004
NYC win - 2009
Boston win - 2014
+
NYC 2nd - 2004
NYC 3rd - 2005
Boston 3rd - 2006
...
...
As for Mantz:
Boston 4th - 2025
Olympic 8th - 2024
Chicago 6th - 2023
Chicago 7th - 2022
...
It isn't even close.
Mantz could start with one Oly/WC/Major podium. When he has SIX podiums, and two wins...then he can join the conversation for GOAT US marathoner.
It was nice watching an American go for it and push the pace in the mid-to-later stages of a major marathon knowing there's a chance the guy might not implode.
People used to look at 2h05 as a doped time, I am glad now that americans are running 2h05 on a Boston course look at it as a normal thing! I always said if somebody can run 59, he should shoot for 2h04 at least! And if you loved cross country, there is a good chance you are gonna love the marathon!
Disagree on the bolded part by far. I don't know what race you were watching, but Mantz was the aggressor in the last two miles by far. He was pulling them along, not the other way. If you don't trust that you have more speed in your legs than they do, then that has to be your tactic: run the hurt into their legs so that they fall back, even by a few feet. Classic strength runner territory.
The part in italics I completely agree with. Which why I've said that I thought Mantz's gutsy emotional running style makes sense for him, and Young's more cerebral approach would be perfect for Valencia: Get on a 2:06 train and ride it all the way to the finish. That Mantz is willing and able to go with moves is a testament to his aerobic ability and, frankly, to his sheer gutsiness.
I'm stunned that Linkletter was able to hold on. He looked very herky-jerky getting dropped off of the lead pack at the 2/3 point in the race and I thought that he was done there, so major props to him to come back and actually beat Clayton. They both come off as very likeable on their videos, and its not hard to root for guys who aren't jerks to do well, whether that "doing well" is showing up in the top 10 of one of the fastest Boston's in history or the Olympics.
So your disagreement is just one of not following though on the rest of my comment. He leads, and they stuck right with him. He let them take the lead and they slowed. They were essentially baiting him, letting him do the work and "pulling" him along by forcing him to lead and wear himself out. If they wanted to drop him they could have. And he would have been running alone.
Like I said, I'm no hater. Big fan. I think "they" have his number.
Mantz has it rough. He's the only non African (ie superhuman class) up there running and he needs all of them to have an off day to have a shot.
I do have the feeling that Mantz probably needs to just go for it as was talked about before the race on Citius and just solo time trial if he wants to win one of these on his merits. The tactics of racing smart are always going to work against him in a field surrounded by 5 Africans.
My disagreement is that what Mantz did was the only possible path for him to beat those two men. If he doesn't push the pace and surge repeatedly, its almost assured that they'll fly by him at the end and then all us armchair runners watching at home would be saying, "why didn't he do something, try something, try ANYTHING to actually get 2nd place?"
And we'd be right. Surging the way he did may have pulled them along, but if one of them was hurting, that might have been enough to get them to drop back 10 meters and fall off just slightly. You never know. Mantz didn't know, but I have, in 40+ years of watching world class running, hardly ever seen an American run as gutsy and ball breaking race at world class pace as what we saw on Monday. Second fastest time at Boston ever by an American and it was often at the front pushing, pushing, pushing. There is no disgrace to lose to a faster runner, but that level of effort? Absolutely astonishing. Find me another American effort equivalent to that one.
Mantz will never think back on this with a "well, if only I would have tried harder..." There was no harder. And he could easily have broken someone and gotten on the podium in another race. That effort and time were and are phenomenal.
The 2025 Boston Marathon was the fastest since 2011. Arguably the most talented field in Boston Marathon history. Understanding that weather, conditions, shoes, all play a factor, Conner's time would have won him every Boston Marathon in the past 13 editions.
Understanding that all those things play a factor, your conclusion is irrelevant.
Mantz caught a huge lucky break when Lemma dropped out, and he still couldn’t finish top 3.
Mantz is a very good runner but let’s stop pretending he’s one of the all time great Americans.
exactly..hes slow!! there are woman now who run 3mins behind him in 2:08.
hes quick for a woman. THAT IS THE OBJECTIVE REALITY.
Mantz should really run Berlin Marathon. With pacers and a good group he can go even faster.
Why? Chicago is a proven world record course - both the men's and women's WRs were set there. And he gets the American premium in his appearance fee if he runs there. Berlin would likely only pay a small fee. Berlin is also quite a shallow field these days. If Mantz really wanted a fast course and a deep field, the obvious option is Valencia but he won't get an appearance fee from there as their money goes to guys running 2:01 to 2:03
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