Getting ignored by coaches with a 4:15 1600m

Boys and girls, it appears you have all been trolled. After reading this post, I thought it sounded fishy so I looked up the poster's other posts. They also started another thread af few weeks ago claiming to have run 15:30 in xc - whereas in this thread it's just 16:30.

Nice troll job.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=13392301#post-1

PS. As a former D1 coach, I'll say this. The people I really didn't see much interest in recruiting at Cornell were milers who had no speed and weren't good at xc. People with times like the troll's.

I'm not sure at this point how tough it is to make these teams I'm going to recommend, but if I was a west-coast based athlete looking to get to the level where a more serious D1 would be interested, I'd want to go to Portland or Gonzaga.

Pat Tyson and Rob Conner are fantastic coaches who could develop a guy like you into a much better runner. Two of my high school teammates ran for Conner way back in the day and they both got much better. Some of my college teammates were Mead runners/state champs for Tyson. I'd rather run for Tyson or Conner than just about any coach in the world.

Also, if it makes you feel better, my daughter's high school has one of the top 800/1600 juniors in the country and so far he isn't getting any major attention from any of the top schools. He is visiting schools I've never even heard of. When he has heard from a top school, so far they aren't offering any money. He's getting close to the top so that might change, but at this point he's looking at much lesser schools than you are.

Lastly, way way back in the day I was a runner of about your abilities who was an invited walk-on at Washington. I ran there for a few years, was not the worst person on the team but pretty bad, was never under threat of being removed from the roster, but I was in way over my head and never improved. Trying to make that huge step all at once was the end of me as a runner. My same-age high school teammate ran JUCO for Conner for one year, transferred into Washington, and was a productive member of the team at XC and 5000m, and continued to improve throughout college. Not sure, but I believe he was a D1 All American in XC at one point.

If you want to do the running game in college, you should be looking for the school that is going to do the best job developing you. The top D1s will just destroy you, you're not ready for that level yet.

You're getting flat-out rejected? What schools? Would they not let you walk on? I read through some of the comments on the first page & disagree slightly with the lack of endurance. I guess it depends on your mileage/experience. Coaches should see some upside if you're doing that off of relatively low mileage. If you haven't been running for super long, don't run a ton of mileage, & have stayed injury free, present yourself as a runner who is ready to up their mileage & reach their true potential. But remember that D1 isn't everything. Idk your process but find schools that align with you academically. A 4:15 could help get you into a strong academic D1 or D3. Think about your future. Running for just any D1 is different from running at a D3 & getting a great education.

His biggest problem, according to Rojo, is that he doesn’t exist.

News Flash!!!

D-1 coaches aren't recruiting freshman. Unless you're throwing down some serious times (sub 9:00-3200, sub 4:10-1600, sub 1:52-800), we aren't looking at you. The portal and grad students are who we're looking at. With pending roster cap casualties there's going to be a lot of quality athletes looking for an opportunity to train and race at a competitive level, AND there's money for them. If I were a senior in high school and fall outside the above times (not by much), I'd look at smaller D-1 mid-level schools with an exceptional coaching staff, get into the school, pay the tuition, and then earn your way to a scholarship.

Its like you ran the mile on the short BU track and it was hand timed with an elevation readjustment....

Too many on here completely removed from NCAA T&F and are missing just how much super shoes have changed track times in the last 5 years, never mind when they were running 20-30 years ago.

Here's the number of NCAA D1 sub-4 milers indoor along with the 100th best mile time:

2025 - 139 (100th: 3:58.81)

2023 - 97 (100th: 4:00.38)

2021 - 38 (100th: 4:06.49)

2019 - 33 (100th: 4:04.71)

2017 - 30 (100th: 4:04.81)

2015 - 32 (100th: 4:03.81)

2013 - 30 (100th: 4:05.03)

2011 - 22 (100th: 4:05.85)

The reality is, times jumped about 5-7 seconds for a mile from 2011 and 2025 (pretty much exclusively post-covid and in the supershoe/superspike era).

Too many of you are living in the early 2000s or even earlier where a 4:15 high school 1600m was a standout athlete (top-50 HS time in the country in 2005). That is no longer the case and more akin to a 4:20-22. This is still solid running but a far cry from the performance the oldies on here think. This athlete would need to improve 20 seconds in the mile in college just to crack the top 100 in the NCAA; 10 seconds just to break the top 500 (https://tf.tfrrs.org/lists/4867/2024_2025_NCAA_Division_I_Indoor_List_FINAL#event57). Top D1 coaches aren't exactly going to be falling over one another to sign a guy who can maybe be a top-500 guy in a few years.

We then have the relatively bad 3200m/XC times. That could be looked over as under-training if he had 49/1:51 speed, but a 1:57 is underwhelming as well.

Factor in roster size issues, it already being April, and us not knowing what 15 schools he emailed, I am not surprised at all there has been no response. Some coaches who can maybe sign 1-2 distance athletes and they better be studs.

My advice is similar to what some others have said here:

- Adjust your expectations and schools. 4:15 is a reasonable time but you're 20 seconds from being a top-100 NCAA guy. Considering the huge drop in times, roster size issues, and more, top programs are looking for sub 4:05 as their studs. They're willing to consider others (say sub 4:10) but typically have to be well balanced or a huge upside because they know it's a gamble and going to be a long play. Look at mid-majors, conferences you may eventually be competitive, D2, D3, etc.

- Consider a JUCO. You can get your first 2 years of school for cheap (they may offer tuition waver too) while seeing if you can get your times down, then can transfer into a larger school.

- Go to college for college. Go to the best school you get into and you can still run on the side with a club, group, etc.

- I'd scrap the idea of a gap year, whoever suggested that. Terrible suggestion.