Some are urging President Donald Trump to consider pardoning a pirate. It’s been some time since anyone has uttered those words, but make no mistake, this pirate is just as dangerous and deserving of punishment as those who s...
I think this is a fair way of viewing things - we can acknowledge people that don't identify as male or female and let them live their lives, but at the same time knowing that males at birth have an advantage in womens sports
It's weird how much national discourse is focused on a mere 1.4% of the population
And it would be less than 1.4% if folks ignored it. Classic culture wars distraction. Gay marriage was the same thing around a decade ago. Everyone goes nuts over this stuff. Meanwhile the Federal Reserve and its cronies continue to rape everyone with a bs currency system.
it’s utility as a distraction is why it wasn’t just ignored or classified as crazy (as it always has been.) it was never about kindness, or whatever the proponents claim it to be. Hopefully spelling out definitions in black and white will be enough to shut people up long enough to allow public focus to drift towards more important things like the strange jerky mannerisms of Elon Musk and the names of bodies of water.
I think this is a fair way of viewing things - we can acknowledge people that don't identify as male or female and let them live their lives, but at the same time knowing that males at birth have an advantage in womens sports
Every person should have his or her own gender. Like a personal gender. Then it can truly be something meaningless and useless and folks will stop being silly.
The real problem is that gender stuff isn’t just choices about clothing and makeup consumption — or a punch card system run by plastic surgeons and psychiatrists. Gender is a language rooted in history, with implications for everything from daily manners to courtship rituals, to roles within workplaces, homes etc… And those complex signals aren’t based on nothing. They’re based on sex. So you can’t divorce the two and still have the language function.
Most folks may not realize it, but the reason there is such a strong objection to wrecking an old and complex language is that it provides value. And anyway nobody who wants to subvert it or otherwise throw it out has proposed a better system. I’m not even sure one can be devised. These aren’t things devised overnight. And the “progress” of the last century and a half was destructive enough. Folks need some time to evaluate the consequences of that before launching quickly into further stranger cultural experiments.
People might very well live their lives in peace so long as they respect the right of others to adhere to the languages developed over the course of untold centuries. The issue has never been with the tiny percentage of confused men who wear dresses. That’s harmless enough. The issue is with people who insist that others regard them as something other than men wearing dresses.
Says the Leftist who wants to tell everyone how to live
Not a Leftist and I don't tell you how to live. I simply draw attention to the fact that many of you are a*seholes.
Tye bi-polar political spectrum is just part of a divide and conquer strategy. It has no other valid use. One can debate the merits of authoritarianism without resorting to that false dichotomy.
So everyone who runs any commerce marketplace should be responsible for everything bought and sold on it? Does Jeff Bezos answer for the slaving his sellers do? Or the polluting? No. He just profits from it, along with Amazon shareholders, of course. The same goes for eBay and every other platform.
Few wish to see folks trafficked or children abused. Still, if the need to combat that results in a need for total surveillance — to the point where people are not free to transact without being taxed and forced to use a currency of someone else’s choosing, then I expect that combatting the behavior will need to take another form. No crime in the world is worth submitting to the kind of control that is desired by those who shut down the Silk Road.
And anyway, surveillance and currency control won’t even achieve the goal of saving kids. All theyll do is ensure that when the powerful folks diddle kids, they are the only game in town and truly unstoppable. Things seem to be reasonably close to that scenario now. Any contribution that chips away at the power of the money printers and taxmen is valuable.
At any rate, I disagree with those on this thread and elsewhere who are decrying this EO of Trump's because they contend that there's no possible way for American society and the US legal system to recognize the realities of sex in our species and provide sex-based rights, provisions and protections for those of us who are female without automatically subjecting persons with rare DSDs like Alicia Weigel to harm, cruelty, injustice, exclusion, marginalization, stigmatization, unfair discrimination and other forms of mistreatment.
In fact, I think most of the people who are making these claims - and railing that any acknowledgement of biolgical reality is bigotry, especially when it's done to benefit female people - are full of it.
Acknowledging the existence of people with Swyer Syndrome and CAIS is not bigotry.
Not acknowledging the biological reality of their existence is bigotry.
And I don't think reclassifying people with Swyer Syndrome and CAIS as male would benefit any female person. But chromosome fundamentalists on this board
Seems like a different topic, more than “bigotry.” For example I’m sure there are other genital mutations that could cause confusion and are similarly not discussed. But the goal is to create a system to get out of the gender identity morass, not to enter an even more niche sex organ mutation morass.
And anyway, these cases are significantly rarer than the ones the action is designed to address, which seem to run the gamut in terms of causes and motives — and appear to be catching. These do not seem contagious or cultural in origin.
For the purposes of sport, there is a simple solution: do it how folks used to do it. If there’s a dick at birth it is a man. If no dick at birth then it is a woman. And when stakes are higher (say professional sports) and then do the requisite testing to make sure there are no such cases among the women.
As for “benefiting” females, wasn’t Caster Semenya one such case? Did that impact the females in those races? Sure it did. Hell of a situation
Fact is some of these folks are neither men nor women. Nevertheless doing an ‘rare and sterile mutant’ category for the sake of confirming categories to “biological reality” seems, if anything, cruel. Better to stay the course with the workable, if imperfect, dichotomy.
Not a Leftist and I don't tell you how to live. I simply draw attention to the fact that many of you are a*seholes.
Tye bi-polar political spectrum is just part of a divide and conquer strategy. It has no other valid use. One can debate the merits of authoritarianism without resorting to that false dichotomy.
Fascism isn't a "false dichotomy". You are either part of it or against it.
I think this is a fair way of viewing things - we can acknowledge people that don't identify as male or female and let them live their lives, but at the same time knowing that males at birth have an advantage in womens sports
I agree with this.
Gender is cultural and a human construct, which is why many cultures in human society have had more than two genders.
Sex is biological. This is the difference of a word having gender, since words are human constructs, but something like a worm having no gender at all because it has no culture or society.
And I’m sorry to my fellow lefties, but there needs to be a division in sport based on innate levels of testosterone. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
I think this is a fair way of viewing things - we can acknowledge people that don't identify as male or female and let them live their lives, but at the same time knowing that males at birth have an advantage in womens sports
Every person should have his or her own gender. Like a personal gender. Then it can truly be something meaningless and useless and folks will stop being silly.
The real problem is that gender stuff isn’t just choices about clothing and makeup consumption — or a punch card system run by plastic surgeons and psychiatrists. Gender is a language rooted in history, with implications for everything from daily manners to courtship rituals, to roles within workplaces, homes etc… And those complex signals aren’t based on nothing. They’re based on sex. So you can’t divorce the two and still have the language function.
Most folks may not realize it, but the reason there is such a strong objection to wrecking an old and complex language is that it provides value. And anyway nobody who wants to subvert it or otherwise throw it out has proposed a better system. I’m not even sure one can be devised. These aren’t things devised overnight. And the “progress” of the last century and a half was destructive enough. Folks need some time to evaluate the consequences of that before launching quickly into further stranger cultural experiments.
People might very well live their lives in peace so long as they respect the right of others to adhere to the languages developed over the course of untold centuries. The issue has never been with the tiny percentage of confused men who wear dresses. That’s harmless enough. The issue is with people who insist that others regard them as something other than men wearing dresses.
If you present yourself and identify as a Christian, I will recognize you as a Christian, no matter your previous religious affiliation. It’s just being respectful.
If you present yourself as a man and identify as a man, I will recognize you as a man, no matter your previous gender identity. It’s just being respectful.
isn‘t it fascinating though, that if you drag a population through a decade or so of gender nonsense, and then show them a possible return to a two-gender framework of humanity, we (some of us) are grateful and relieved.
It reminds me of people escaping from concentration camps, digging up a turnip and thinking it‘s the best food they‘ve ever tasted.
Doesn‘t it just show that we are now willing to put up with almost anything, so long as they will just stop shoving this panoply of genders thing down our throats?
"it reminds me of people escaping from concentration camps..." It is just like that. Can't believe I didn't think of it.
Read the EO. You are describing other evidence indicating fe/maleness. That's not what the EO says:
"(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell. (e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell."
I did read the EO. I'm the one who first posted it on this thread. I even copied & pasted the whole thing so people could read it for themselves right here on the thread.
If humans didn't have a sex/belong to a sex class from conception, then there'd be no way to ascertain the sex of IVF embryos in order to practice sex-selection - a pretty common practice nowadays.
The problem is that they've defined the sexes by both the time of conception and a later outcome. An XY female will not produce sperm. So, under the definition, that person would be both "male" at conception in "traditional" terms (with XY), and "not male" when developed (will not produce sperm (I don't know why they're so allergic to that word)). Colloquially, the definition makes sense, and obviously not a common outcome, but in real terms, the dumbness of it is telling.
If you present yourself and identify as a Christian, I will recognize you as a Christian, no matter your previous religious affiliation. It’s just being respectful.
If you present yourself as a man and identify as a man, I will recognize you as a man, no matter your previous gender identity. It’s just being respectful.
What if I present myself as a board certified physician and identify as a board certified physician? (I didn't go to med school)
I wonder how he defined the two genders. I would go with nipples: if you have them, they are obviously there for breast feeding making you female. Males would have no purpose for such a thing, so males don't have nipples.
But of course I'm the one in the wrong here for daring to to call blokes like Clark "entitled, selfish and pushy" - when obviously they're all sainted, noble, purehearted, praiseworthy paragons of virtue utterly beyond reproach whom everyone should coddle and kowtow to coz nowdays big strapping blokes like Clark supposedly constitute "the most vulnerable in society." And if they don't get their way, they'll be driven to sewercide.
No, I didn't call Lazuli Clark "sainted, noble, purehearted, praiseworthy paragons of virtue." I called him "entitled, selfish and pushy."
I also think he is a hypocrite. He was perfectly fine with competing as a male vocalist when it served his interests. But then he insisted on competing on girls' sports teams when it served his interests. I would have respect for Clark if he was willing to compete as a female vocalist, knowing he would have competitive disadvantage.
But no, he would not do that. He knew he could not compete as a female vocalist. So he took an easy way. This not only makes him hypocritical and cowardly, but also puts his claim to female gender identity in serious doubt.
You don't see the hypocrisy and cowardness in his act because you believe every person who claims trans identity to get into female spaces is fake.
Unlike you, I see every trans person as unique individual. There is nothing "sainted, noble, purehearted, praiseworthy" about Clark's behavior. (I doubt if Clark is really "trans." But that's another discussion.) Nicole Talbot is praiseworthy for having performed as a female vocalist for more than a decade. She does not have any advantage over cis women as a vocalist. But she is genuine and authentic for performing as her true self.