This topic has of course been beaten like a dead horse, but to answer the thread question, I don't believe there is a one. To the OP, I agree it doesn't seem feasible, except by performance enhancing means, that a guy can run 3:28 or under 26:30. A 2:09ish marathon by a woman seems unfathomable and it seems most sensible people don't believe Ruth C is clean.
There's different ways to look at our sport being clearly tainted and not having one athlete near the top who is likely to be clean.
-You accept as a realist that this is how life is and that most people if given the opportunity to cut corners and reap benefits for doing so will. Ultimately, the amount of overall damage done to others by the dopers themselves is minimal. On the scale of terrible things, doping in a relatively unpopular sport is fairly trivial.
-Since it's likely everybody at the top dopes, that makes it a level playing field anyway. So the winners of races are going to be those with genetic advantages, training advantages, more heart and determination, etc. If everyone dopes, it's the same as if nobody dopes. It takes away any real advantage. This means that the thrill of seeing the pros race and expecting drama and upsets is just as fun as if there was no doping. A running fan should be excited to see individuals running so fast compete against each other.
-You are outraged and refuse to accept the status quo as it is. You believe this is an unfair advantage for some over others. The doping ruins the competitive racing thrills for you as a fan because you feel the race isn't somehow real. You demand that athletes be tested frequently to reduce the odds of cheating and you believe that a robust expensive federations should be needed in order to enforce adequate drug testing. You believe probably that all of these athletes are bad people for bamboozling the public into thinking they are achieving athletic success on their own through talent, hard work, and determination. You believe in the strictest penalties possible for dopers who are caught.
Good mid distance and distance picks but if we are talking world class/majors medal potential, Parker Valby is nowhere near world class. Hope she can be one day.
From the USA, Monson, Mu and St. Pierre are currently the only US women that have shown they can compete and be a medal threat (Monson is even a stretch as even she has not yet shown she can be in the mix at the end of a major world event) with the best in the world that I believe are clean.
From the USA, Fisher, Nagoose, Hoppel, Rooks and Hocker are currently the only US men that have shown they can compete with the best in the world that I believe are clean.
When I say “the only” that comes with the highest of respect, enthusiasm and support for theses athletes. Being able to medal and consistently show (granted Rooks, Kessler, and Hocker are recent breakthroughs) the ability to be in the mix at the end of a major is incredible given the level that is world class - of which many are most likely doping if one looks to their history.
The list of USA runners that are knocking on the door of being world class is much longer. With all the supportive respect they have earned, I wish them the very best in their pursuit of excellence through clean sport. You can make it to the top, through resilience (mental and physical), smart consistency in training, talent and dedication to hard work.
You invalidated your entire post right there. 11th in the Olympics is not "world class?" So, please tell me, what is your definition of "world class?" Mu and Monson did not even make the team and St. Pierre only placed 8th (and 10th in 2021).
You invalidated your entire post right there. 11th in the Olympics is not "world class?" So, please tell me, what is your definition of "world class?" Mu and Monson did not even make the team and St. Pierre only placed 8th (and 10th in 2021).
You invalidated your entire post right there. 11th in the Olympics is not "world class?" So, please tell me, what is your definition of "world class?" Mu and Monson did not even make the team and St. Pierre only placed 8th (and 10th in 2021).
She’s nowhere near world class. Maybe she will be someday, but her PRs are close to a minute behind the 5000m WR and almost two minutes for the 10000m. In a fast paced 10000m, she would be lapped. If she is world class, she wouldn’t lost 15 seconds over the last lap, to the winners in the Paris 10000m.
I assume you're being sarcastic. Grant has always seemed like a great kid. Maybe he's off the teat now that he's done with Bowerman. That would be cool. But 26:33 w/o doping? No.
Now, though? Maybe he's found a legal way to get the most out of himself without technically doping.
Also, the poster who said Arop and Rudisha. Really? Why do you think these two?
And of course the poster saying Sedjati, Hull, Katir, etc. ... yes we get your sarcasm.
These threads are dumb. Fisher was a bad kid, but now he’s a great one? If he can’t run 26:33 without doping, what could he have run had he not? Medaling at 5/10 is every bit as good as running 26:33, but now you think he might be clean? What is a legal way to cheat?
I believe Nico Young will approach Fisher’s level within two years. Is he a doper or has he at least found a legal way to cheat?
The Mormons (Mantz, C. Young, Rooks, Corrigan, etc.). I truly believe that their religion is more important to them than running and doping would be the ultimate transgression against it.
These are people who won't even take caffeine ffs.
Actually super sensible, these are guys who take 2 years off of running to go do a mission for their religion. It would make no sense to do that, go to a Mormon school, run for 4 years, start a Mormon family, get a high-paying degree, just to risk it all by doping. Even past their personal morals, their family and community would look at them way differently if they got caught.
And if one of them can get a silver medal at the Olympics, while others place 6th, 8th, 9th at the Olympic Marathon, maybe most other medalists aren't doping.
You invalidated your entire post right there. 11th in the Olympics is not "world class?" So, please tell me, what is your definition of "world class?" Mu and Monson did not even make the team and St. Pierre only placed 8th (and 10th in 2021).
I thought I was clear on my definition.
World class, to me, is wether one can be in the hunt for a medal, when it counts at the end of the race, at majors. St. Pierre has proven that. Place number, often in women’s distance events, is a very poor metric because of the serious gaps in time.
I get it, you like Parker Valby, so do I and I hope she can become world class some day. For the moment she would and does get lapped. Think about that. for perspective, In a fast race such as often run at Diamond League, she would be lapped if she were to be invited to DL. That would not be a good look.
It doesn't make it a level playing field. Sure its level for those who dope (which are the ones at the top because they dope). But somehow all those clean athletes would disagree with you about it being level.
You only have to go as far as understanding the Greg Lemond story to see how unlevel it really is....guys win the tour comes back the next year and can't even stay with the field (which has gone full dope mode with Lance Cheatstrong leading the bunch).
I know people like Lance like the justify their cheating by saying (now) that everyone doped, but no - just saying it doesn't make it true. You can only speak for yourself.
The Mormons (Mantz, C. Young, Rooks, Corrigan, etc.). I truly believe that their religion is more important to them than running and doping would be the ultimate transgression against it.
These are people who won't even take caffeine ffs.
My intuition would have been Mormons and Muslims, but seeing El Guerrouj and Hassan is suspiiocus. ot to mention Corrigan's massive progression
Human beings can do some mighty mental gymnastics in order to justify their behaviour.
Religion does not seem to be a reliable sign of innocence.
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