It's technically his best event, sure, but I wouldn't say a non championship distance is his best event considering how rarely it's ran, fewer people take it seriously and every race is a time trial and there's little tactics involved.
In the 5k he's competing against the fastest field ever, hasn't lost since he was a teenager and has shown he can win different types of tactical races.
Armstronglivs is talking about WRs, and Ingebrigtsen’s 3000m is an outstanding one. Jakob can be slightly better at 3000m, yet still set a 5000m WR.
He's way off the 5k wr and hasn't improved his best time in over 3 years. Nothing suggests yet he can get the 5k record.
He's not focused on improving time-wise in his "best" distance and taking the wr? I suppose that must be because it's such an unimportant distance.
Imagine that, the self-proclaimed expert doesn't know that it's normal for athletes to move up in distance as they get older, and that Jakob is trying his best at the shorter distances before he does so. What an expert you are!
No, it isn't normal for athletes to move up in distance as they get older. Did Bolt do that? Did Rudisha, Coe, El G and so on? There is nothing that suggests a 1500 runner will naturally move up to the 5k with equal success - and then the 10k and even the marathon, simply because they have gotten older. Athletes excel at certain distances. Very few have great range but if they do it doesn't come with age but genetics.
Imagine that, the self-proclaimed expert doesn't know that it's normal for athletes to move up in distance as they get older, and that Jakob is trying his best at the shorter distances before he does so. What an expert you are!
No, it isn't normal for athletes to move up in distance as they get older. Did Bolt do that? Did Rudisha, Coe, El G and so on? There is nothing that suggests a 1500 runner will naturally move up to the 5k with equal success - and then the 10k and even the marathon, simply because they have gotten older. Athletes excel at certain distances. Very few have great range but if they do it doesn't come with age but genetics.
Yes, El Guerrouj did that. Your own Rod Dixon went from being a miler to running the marathon competitively. Lopes moved from the track to the marathon. Gebrselassie, Tergat, Bekele, Kipchoge, Silva, Lagat, Faith Kipyegon, Sifan Hassan, Tigist Assefa. Do you want more examples? I can get you many, many more.
The title of this thread says "Serious". With that opening sentence in your post you show you can't have a serious discussion regarding this subject.
I would love some insight from members that had actually race and have somewhat competitive PBs regarding 3000 vs 5000 vs 10000
For me (N=1, a recreational runner -and quite a slow one-) 10k (road) is my best distance, probably because it's my usual run.
Running an equivalent performance of my benchmark 10k time for the 3000 was a hard, pretty uncomfortable but short grind.
Now: 5000 is hell. In my best shape and take, I missed the goal time for 3-4 seconds. My strategy was to gradually push the pace just this tiny bit from a k to go but was redlining so badly I just could hang on for dear life.
I know there are some studies on that matter, but your experience is also a valid point for me: marathon and steeple aside, which is the most grueling long distance event?
JIstrikes me as someone that can clench his teeth and endure it, but maaaaaybe he also struggles to keep that 95% HR for 5:15+ minutes.
TL;DR: Beyond fitness, I believe you need to be a special king of pain type of guy to run a 5000 WR in a TT: meaning, alone with 2k to go.
And a 10000 WR attempt, running 12 laps on your own, has to be sheer agony and mental torture.
I do not for a second think you are as stupid as you pretend to be: Jakob has said he is going for records on the shorter distances first, bc the older he gets, the more difficult it is to have the speed in shorter distances. Just today, in a long interview to Aftenposten in Norway, he said he would try to for the WR in 1500 the coming season. But he needed good conditions and a rabbit that is among the top 8 in the distance, to rabbit him, to have a shot at the record. They did not talk about the 5k record at all, the 1500 is now his focus. He has said himself he think its so painful to run the 5k that he does it as seldom as possible. No doubt he could have a shot at that WR too, but he needs a top rabbit there too.
He's way off the 5k wr and hasn't improved his best time in over 3 years. Nothing suggests yet he can get the 5k record.
Yeah agree. Nothing suggest that he has improved his 5k over 3 years, nothing. Stagnating, really.
I said he hasn't improved his best 5k time in 3 years but said nothing about his championship performances where he showed he can win in slower tactical races. However there is nothing he has done that suggests he will run over 13 seconds faster than he has ever done and take the record.
No, it isn't normal for athletes to move up in distance as they get older. Did Bolt do that? Did Rudisha, Coe, El G and so on? There is nothing that suggests a 1500 runner will naturally move up to the 5k with equal success - and then the 10k and even the marathon, simply because they have gotten older. Athletes excel at certain distances. Very few have great range but if they do it doesn't come with age but genetics.
Yes, El Guerrouj did that. Your own Rod Dixon went from being a miler to running the marathon competitively. Lopes moved from the track to the marathon. Gebrselassie, Tergat, Bekele, Kipchoge, Silva, Lagat, Faith Kipyegon, Sifan Hassan, Tigist Assefa. Do you want more examples? I can get you many, many more.
The title of this thread says "Serious". With that opening sentence in your post you show you can't have a serious discussion regarding this subject.
Most top md runners do not become top distance runners because they get older - as was suggested. If they didn't have range naturally they wouldn't simply acquire it with age. Most of your examples you give were also highly likely to be doping. That is the best way to get range. Not age.
I do not for a second think you are as stupid as you pretend to be: Jakob has said he is going for records on the shorter distances first, bc the older he gets, the more difficult it is to have the speed in shorter distances. Just today, in a long interview to Aftenposten in Norway, he said he would try to for the WR in 1500 the coming season. But he needed good conditions and a rabbit that is among the top 8 in the distance, to rabbit him, to have a shot at the record. They did not talk about the 5k record at all, the 1500 is now his focus. He has said himself he think its so painful to run the 5k that he does it as seldom as possible. No doubt he could have a shot at that WR too, but he needs a top rabbit there too.
So as he loses speed with age he gains in endurance? You really know nothing about physical aging. All capacities decline with age, even if not at the same rate.
I do not for a second think you are as stupid as you pretend to be: Jakob has said he is going for records on the shorter distances first, bc the older he gets, the more difficult it is to have the speed in shorter distances. Just today, in a long interview to Aftenposten in Norway, he said he would try to for the WR in 1500 the coming season. But he needed good conditions and a rabbit that is among the top 8 in the distance, to rabbit him, to have a shot at the record. They did not talk about the 5k record at all, the 1500 is now his focus. He has said himself he think its so painful to run the 5k that he does it as seldom as possible. No doubt he could have a shot at that WR too, but he needs a top rabbit there too.
So as he loses speed with age he gains in endurance? You really know nothing about physical aging. All capacities decline with age, even if not at the same rate.
To be fair, Hagos Gebrhiwet did PR/Nearly set a WR at the ripe age of 30. 12:36 5000m ain't no joke, he could very well attack the 10,000m WR and have an equal chance of it as Joshua Cheptegei did in 2020. I'd say Jakob has until atleast the 2028 Olympics to take the 10,000m seriously. After all, Gebrselassie did go Sub-26:30 at age 30 in 2003.
As long as Jakob can
1) Be in Sub-3:30 1500m fitness
and
2) Get the WR in the 5000m or Have broken the 12:40 Barrier in the 5K
I'd say he should be fine.
Right, but the kicker is those guys of course didn't spend large portions of the careers blasting out super fast 1500/mile/2k/3k/2miles like Jakob has already in the last 2-3 seasons.
I don't know if ever has been a legit WR contender for BOTH the 1500 and 5000. But Komen was in the 3000 and 5000, so I just...
Said Aouita? Sandir Iharos? Gundrr Hagg? Pavo Nurmi?
Aouita is the best example there - with all due respect, not sure the records were developed enough with other to consider them good evidence.
But easy pickup with Aouita - he of course was incredibly close in 85 being only 5 hundredths away (in the 1500m behind Crams 3.29.67) and then did hold both at 3.29.46 and 12.58.39 for 2599 days :D (he held the 5000m for just under 9 years and his 1500m reign happened inside that bubble).
This post was edited 44 seconds after it was posted.
Said Aouita? Sandir Iharos? Gundrr Hagg? Pavo Nurmi?
Aouita is the best example there - with all due respect, not sure the records were developed enough with other to consider them good evidence.
But easy pickup with Aouita - he of course was incredibly close in 85 being only 5 hundredths away (in the 1500m behind Crams 3.29.67) and then did hold both at 3.29.46 and 12.58.39 for 2599 days :D (he held the 5000m for just under 9 years and his 1500m reign happened inside that bubble).
I don’t think the 5000 was that developed either. It took a huge talent in Geb to lower that mark by 8 whole seconds in 95 and then another 3 seconds in 97. There were seconds that were able to be scraped off. Aouita found the perfect opportunity at that point in time to hold both marks at once. Now, running sub 3:26 and 12:35 seems almost impossible (almost 😉). Jakob might do it but that might be the biggest obstacle of his career, not even winning Olympic Gold comes close to this imo.
Yeah agree. Nothing suggest that he has improved his 5k over 3 years, nothing. Stagnating, really.
I said he hasn't improved his best 5k time in 3 years but said nothing about his championship performances where he showed he can win in slower tactical races. However there is nothing he has done that suggests he will run over 13 seconds faster than he has ever done and take the record.
No you are right. If we look past medals (medals doesn't make records) there is nothing suggesting that he has made progress on the distance. I can't think of anything, and least of all three thousand things that might indicate him being faster at 5000.
Armstronglivs is talking about WRs, and Ingebrigtsen’s 3000m is an outstanding one. Jakob can be slightly better at 3000m, yet still set a 5000m WR.
He's way off the 5k wr and hasn't improved his best time in over 3 years. Nothing suggests yet he can get the 5k record.
7:17.55 and 7:54.10 alongside with three global 5000m titles in a row are some very strong indication that 12:48.45 at age 20 doesn't reflect his limit at the distance. For sure he can run faster.
Clearly under 12:40? We have to wait.
Do you think the fact that he hasn't improved his best time in over 3 years is connected with the fact that he hasn't contested a single "time-trial" over the distance at the Diamond League?
I know, in your "thinking" he hasn't contested such a race for the simple reason that he knows he really sucks at the distance.
He really has tried his level best over the 1500m the last years and got within 3/4 of a second close to the WR. The fact that just from this 1500m ability he was able to improve the decades old WRs over 2000m, 3000m and 2 Miles by some margin is a very strong indication that he just gets better over the longer events.
Yeah agree. Nothing suggest that he has improved his 5k over 3 years, nothing. Stagnating, really.
I said he hasn't improved his best 5k time in 3 years but said nothing about his championship performances where he showed he can win in slower tactical races. However there is nothing he has done that suggests he will run over 13 seconds faster than he has ever done and take the record.
Aouita is the best example there - with all due respect, not sure the records were developed enough with other to consider them good evidence.
But easy pickup with Aouita - he of course was incredibly close in 85 being only 5 hundredths away (in the 1500m behind Crams 3.29.67) and then did hold both at 3.29.46 and 12.58.39 for 2599 days :D (he held the 5000m for just under 9 years and his 1500m reign happened inside that bubble).
I don’t think the 5000 was that developed either. It took a huge talent in Geb to lower that mark by 8 whole seconds in 95 and then another 3 seconds in 97. There were seconds that were able to be scraped off. Aouita found the perfect opportunity at that point in time to hold both marks at once. Now, running sub 3:26 and 12:35 seems almost impossible (almost 😉). Jakob might do it but that might be the biggest obstacle of his career, not even winning Olympic Gold comes close to this imo.
Is it really that hard to get such simple facts correct?
In '95 Geb improved the WR from 12:55.30 to 12:44.39.
I said he hasn't improved his best 5k time in 3 years but said nothing about his championship performances where he showed he can win in slower tactical races. However there is nothing he has done that suggests he will run over 13 seconds faster than he has ever done and take the record.
No you are right. If we look past medals (medals doesn't make records) there is nothing suggesting that he has made progress on the distance. I can't think of anything, and least of all three thousand things that might indicate him being faster at 5000.
Three thousand? If there are that many then why isn't he any faster than he was over 3 years ago.
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