Where are people buying these PEDs? Sketchy sites in Europe or Asia?
easily obtained in mexico (good luck getting it across the border), easily ordered from china (comes with a paper trail). the concentrations and efficacy of the pharmaceuticals from these two countries seem to vary significantly, however. because of this, people being testes tend to shy away from these sources.
I have seen the microdosing testosterone comment on this forum more times than I can count. It doesn't work that way. If you repeatedly microdose exogenous test, it will shut down your HPTA natural production of T, which is counterproductive to training of distance running (for males). The whole point of T as PED is steady state levels to recover overnight (versus natural diurnal trough at night when T dips down).
The only exception to the HPTA rule is nasal T like Natesto, only provides marginal training/recovery benefits and is easily detectable.
Taking nasal T or a fast-acting, ester-less T injection the day of race is also counterproductive for distance runners because it spikes your blood pressure. It's a very uncomfortable feeling that diminishes your cardio capacity. Good for short bursts, not not 800 meters on up.
There are PEDs involved for sure in distance running, but it ain't microdosing T.
i'm unsure as to what others are describing by microdose, but i am referring to utilizing an appropriate bit of test at a time to keep the levels into an area where the overall levels of testosterone to estrogen would not flag (not supranormal levels), as well as ther amount of synthetic test not setting off the alarms. meaning, not doing one big whopper of a 75microg injection each week. rather, a smaller dose 2-3 times/wk depending on training load. that could be done through injection or topical. in addition, a supplement to enhance the effects of test while not actually increasing the test would also be beneficial. i believe that's where something like nandrolone would come into play with only an elimination half life of around 4-5 hours.
i'm still convinced that the SARMS and peptides are what the new driving force is (used in addition to the usual suspects of somatotropin and rbc stimulation). peptides are one thing, but SARMS is a whole new level of side effects that you're bringing to the table.
That's a good point about the SARM.
I used to also think that microdosing T to stay within physiological levels would enable one to evade positive test. Most men can inject 7-10mg of a medium-term ester T like enanthate or cypionate and stay in upper physiological range of normal levels (e.g., 700 ng/dl versus top end of 900 ng/dl) with spiking T/E ratio
But the Carbon Isotope Ratio test changed all that. Good article on on Velo:
"Danielson was busted by CIR, short for Carbon Isotope Ratio, a highly accurate test that is able to distinguish between naturally produced testosterone and its synthetic cousin using molecular weight. It is the first test able to detect the synthetic testosterone itself, rather than the body’s reaction to it.
The traditional method of detecting abuse of testosterone looks for an imbalance in the ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone. It is referred to as the T/E ratio test. A normal ratio for most humans is near 1:1. The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) considers a ratio over 4:1 to be a positive test. This has dropped in recent years — it was 8:1, then 6:1, and now 4:1. Floyd Landis had a ratio of 11:1 when he was nabbed by both the T/E ratio test and CIR in 2006 with a sample taken during the Tour de France.
If administered at the right time, the T/E ratio method can be very effective. But testosterone/epitestosterone ratios return to normal quickly, even overnight if taken in the right doses. With the ban on overnight testing, which was only recently partially lifted, the test’s real-world efficacy drops considerably.
The T/E test simply looks for a physiological response to doping, rather than the product itself. That is its flaw.
CIR is effective but expensive — $400-700 per sample, nearly 10 times the cost of the T/E ratio test. Like the T/E test, CIR is also based on a ratio. Labs determine the quantities of carbon-12 and carbon-13, two isotopes, or types, of carbon, within an individual’s testosterone molecules. Synthetic testosterone has less carbon-13 than naturally occurring testosterone."
Shoes, Track, PED's. Training hasn't really evolved all that much. (I know the double threshold people will balk at this) As far as why the MD/Distance events and not the sprints....wasn't there a study done a few years back as to the type of track composition that favors distance vs. sprinters is exactly opposite? Soft bouncy favors distance, hard favors sprinters was the consensus if I remember correctly. If the newer tracks are soft and bouncy wouldn't that result in faster distance results?
Where are people buying these PEDs? Sketchy sites in Europe or Asia?
The dark web sounds spooky, but the right sites are about as reliable as ebay. Get the proper testing equipment and boom.
Me and my dad also found a steroid shop in Mexico. They had nandrolone, clenbutral, trenbolone, you name it. Sold at roughly 10$ US per serving.
Why go to Mexico? You can get a prescription of testosterone cypionate blended with nandrolone from physician in U.S. filled by compounding pharmacy in U.S. EPO is different story...
Doping is something that died 10 years ago, tests are way better now.
+1 for the shoes. they have been underrated here.
My 5000m had been 16:10s for ages, then last year I finally got a pair of the Dragonfly and I broke 16 without even grimacing at the end as I usually did. (ok, that's still slow AF here)
Ok so you dropped 15 seconds. Great. We aren’t talking about that. At your level, gains like that are expected. at the pro level, these types of gains aren’t made naturally or with shoes.
The dark web sounds spooky, but the right sites are about as reliable as ebay. Get the proper testing equipment and boom.
Me and my dad also found a steroid shop in Mexico. They had nandrolone, clenbutral, trenbolone, you name it. Sold at roughly 10$ US per serving.
Why go to Mexico? You can get a prescription of testosterone cypionate blended with nandrolone from physician in U.S. filled by compounding pharmacy in U.S. EPO is different story...
I haven’t ever looked into getting or how to get just fully legal steroids in the US, but I think the answer is the legally immortalized paper trail.
You can get lots of substances in Telegram too if you have the right connection. Telegram notifies you if one of your contacts joins Telegram. From what I understand Telegram is an app for peedos, people looking for rec drugs, and people looking for PEDs. I always enjoy getting the notification that one of my contacts have joined Telegram. “BYU Track and Field has joined Telegram! Say hi!”
I really wonder who that is, Tiktok is always trying to get me to add BYU T&Fs official account from my contacts too. I didn’t run at BYU and I wasn’t recruited at BYU. If you know the answer to this you’ll find a dirty coach or maybe just a dirty human being I reckon.
Allegedly the new PED is something targeting the mitochondria
Biggest question is testicular shrinkage for men -- WADA and USADA test for "keep the balls on" drugs. Is there a new sperm pump drug, or should drug testers be measuring testicle circumference?
I would greatly disagree regarding exogenous (synthetic) hgh being indistinguishable. It’s just that it has an extremely short detection window (4-6 hours in some studies). Now, your suggestion about mitochondrial manipulation might really have some merit. If your body has more “powerhouses” then more energy is produced- more mitochondria would then be able to utilize analogously more oxygen, effectively increasing tissue oxygenation. The more o’s, the longer it takes for lactic acidosis. Really good thought, man.
This would be detected with LT testing and/or VO2max testing being off-the-charts?
I used to also think that microdosing T to stay within physiological levels would enable one to evade positive test. Most men can inject 7-10mg of a medium-term ester T like enanthate or cypionate and stay in upper physiological range of normal levels (e.g., 700 ng/dl versus top end of 900 ng/dl) with spiking T/E ratio
But the Carbon Isotope Ratio test changed all that. Good article on on Velo:
"Danielson was busted by CIR, short for Carbon Isotope Ratio, a highly accurate test that is able to distinguish between naturally produced testosterone and its synthetic cousin using molecular weight. It is the first test able to detect the synthetic testosterone itself, rather than the body’s reaction to it.
The traditional method of detecting abuse of testosterone looks for an imbalance in the ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone. It is referred to as the T/E ratio test. A normal ratio for most humans is near 1:1. The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) considers a ratio over 4:1 to be a positive test. This has dropped in recent years — it was 8:1, then 6:1, and now 4:1. Floyd Landis had a ratio of 11:1 when he was nabbed by both the T/E ratio test and CIR in 2006 with a sample taken during the Tour de France.
If administered at the right time, the T/E ratio method can be very effective. But testosterone/epitestosterone ratios return to normal quickly, even overnight if taken in the right doses. With the ban on overnight testing, which was only recently partially lifted, the test’s real-world efficacy drops considerably.
The T/E test simply looks for a physiological response to doping, rather than the product itself. That is its flaw.
CIR is effective but expensive — $400-700 per sample, nearly 10 times the cost of the T/E ratio test. Like the T/E test, CIR is also based on a ratio. Labs determine the quantities of carbon-12 and carbon-13, two isotopes, or types, of carbon, within an individual’s testosterone molecules. Synthetic testosterone has less carbon-13 than naturally occurring testosterone."
A research chemist can buy 13C enriched compounds including testosterone. By mixing it with much cheaper ordinary test, one could easily fine tune the 13C/12C ratio.
i mean concentrates from plants and animals. amino acids, peptides or protein extracts,
alkaline solutions, the list goes on.
training at threshold, lactate monitoring
even things like pre race breath work, see wim hoff, and some next level developments
i would love to be an athlete now with proper sports medicine support.
my first year, i was on antibiotics for 4 months, did 30x200m per day as a mainstay at 800 race pace, plus gym plus the 5 mile in the morning, and stuff like that.
its a good time to be an athlete. where you are not a total guinea pig, which most protegees were, and few survived.
i mean concentrates from plants and animals. amino acids, peptides or protein extracts,
alkaline solutions, the list goes on.
training at threshold, lactate monitoring
even things like pre race breath work, see wim hoff, and some next level developments
i would love to be an athlete now with proper sports medicine support.
my first year, i was on antibiotics for 4 months, did 30x200m per day as a mainstay at 800 race pace, plus gym plus the 5 mile in the morning, and stuff like that.
its a good time to be an athlete. where you are not a total guinea pig, which most protegees were, and few survived.
I’ll never understand how coaches figured 30x200m @800m pace was a good idea. Builds plenty of mental toughness im sure, but you are maximizing the gains there at 10-12 reps. Build the mental toughness on Vo2Max and threshold days.
I used to also think that microdosing T to stay within physiological levels would enable one to evade positive test. Most men can inject 7-10mg of a medium-term ester T like enanthate or cypionate and stay in upper physiological range of normal levels (e.g., 700 ng/dl versus top end of 900 ng/dl) with spiking T/E ratio
But the Carbon Isotope Ratio test changed all that. Good article on on Velo:
"Danielson was busted by CIR, short for Carbon Isotope Ratio, a highly accurate test that is able to distinguish between naturally produced testosterone and its synthetic cousin using molecular weight. It is the first test able to detect the synthetic testosterone itself, rather than the body’s reaction to it.
The traditional method of detecting abuse of testosterone looks for an imbalance in the ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone. It is referred to as the T/E ratio test. A normal ratio for most humans is near 1:1. The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) considers a ratio over 4:1 to be a positive test. This has dropped in recent years — it was 8:1, then 6:1, and now 4:1. Floyd Landis had a ratio of 11:1 when he was nabbed by both the T/E ratio test and CIR in 2006 with a sample taken during the Tour de France.
If administered at the right time, the T/E ratio method can be very effective. But testosterone/epitestosterone ratios return to normal quickly, even overnight if taken in the right doses. With the ban on overnight testing, which was only recently partially lifted, the test’s real-world efficacy drops considerably.
The T/E test simply looks for a physiological response to doping, rather than the product itself. That is its flaw.
CIR is effective but expensive — $400-700 per sample, nearly 10 times the cost of the T/E ratio test. Like the T/E test, CIR is also based on a ratio. Labs determine the quantities of carbon-12 and carbon-13, two isotopes, or types, of carbon, within an individual’s testosterone molecules. Synthetic testosterone has less carbon-13 than naturally occurring testosterone."
A research chemist can buy 13C enriched compounds including testosterone. By mixing it with much cheaper ordinary test, one could easily fine tune the 13C/12C ratio.
ya, and how about micro-organisms introduced to the gut that convert cholesterol and sterols into androstenedione, and testosterone precursors.
this idea isnt quit a novelty, gut and organism bacteria affect steroid production and deteroriation. including testosterone, estrogen, and in fact are an important component of normal health.
there are 1000 ways to manipulate, probably infinite.
so cutting edge sports medicine always risks being in the grey zone, depending on the whim or fairness of a WADA.
basically, PEDs are here to stay, might as well legalize it, and perhaps put limits on the blood passport, for certain markers, hormonal, red blood cell count, etc.
A research chemist can buy 13C enriched compounds including testosterone. By mixing it with much cheaper ordinary test, one could easily fine tune the 13C/12C ratio.
ya, and how about micro-organisms introduced to the gut that convert cholesterol and sterols into androstenedione, and testosterone precursors.
this idea isnt quit a novelty, gut and organism bacteria affect steroid production and deteroriation. including testosterone, estrogen, and in fact are an important component of normal health.
there are 1000 ways to manipulate, probably infinite.
so cutting edge sports medicine always risks being in the grey zone, depending on the whim or fairness of a WADA.
basically, PEDs are here to stay, might as well legalize it, and perhaps put limits on the blood passport, for certain markers, hormonal, red blood cell count, etc.
Had no idea about micro-doping by changing your bacteria biome, that’s incredibly interesting.
i mean concentrates from plants and animals. amino acids, peptides or protein extracts,
alkaline solutions, the list goes on.
training at threshold, lactate monitoring
even things like pre race breath work, see wim hoff, and some next level developments
i would love to be an athlete now with proper sports medicine support.
my first year, i was on antibiotics for 4 months, did 30x200m per day as a mainstay at 800 race pace, plus gym plus the 5 mile in the morning, and stuff like that.
its a good time to be an athlete. where you are not a total guinea pig, which most protegees were, and few survived.
I’ll never understand how coaches figured 30x200m @800m pace was a good idea. Builds plenty of mental toughness im sure, but you are maximizing the gains there at 10-12 reps. Build the mental toughness on Vo2Max and threshold days.
on top, there was a long run 2 hours plus weekly.
i thought my coach was state of the art, loved the guy. he was a national champ pole vaulter, so i did pole vault exercises, chin up bar and kick the ceiling! cool trick for a runner.
anyway, intervals are a short cut to peaking, and also fly too close to the sun,
we did very well until we landed on the sun...
when i read lydiard, i knew exactly what he meant. on intervals.
now the interpretation of lydiard was all over the place.
snell actualy did more work at speed, and ditched too much of the LSD, as did John Walker.
anyway, intervals are great used sparingly, the extremen anaerobic running.
with that said, those interval sessions, surely make you pain tolerant.
and in the finish of a race you can conjure up pace where others cant.
that said, you burn out, and end up with nothing at some point.
After what looked like the most doped-up Diamond League event I’ve ever seen, I’m finally at the point where I think there must be a new PED that is being widely used. It’s clearly something that is helping with pain tolerance / lactate resistance. Anybody have any insight as to what it might be? Surely it has filtered to the college ranks by now and some of you must know what this is. Any thoughts?
I had the exact same thought. Kipyegon wasn't even breathing hard.
More like Hull. Kipyegon was grimacing Hull looked like it was an interval
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