Jeff Nelson: How good was he?

Paul Cummings

Louie Quintana

Fred Richerson

Dale Story

Bob Delaney

Tracy Smith

Ron Larrieu

Ryan Hall

Galen Rupp

Louie Zamperini

Bob Chambers

David Mack

Dennis Carr

Morgon Groth

Ulis Williams

to name a few - If I've repeated, so let it be written

better question wrote:

I'd like someone to name 5 S.CA HS DR runners that actually achieved something in D1 and/or post college running, 1500 or above. I'll admit the HS times down their have been amazing...but, hey, it's high school.

dumb question wrote:

Sure, without putting any thought into it

Steve Scott

Thom Hunt

Terry Cotton

Doug Padilla

Meb

Well said, along with both Jeff Atkinson and Ryan Hall (as others have already mentioned). As a matter of fact, if you're going to include D1 success stories, we can even through UCLA's Steve Ortiz into the mix. He was an 8:55 2-miler from Barstow HS, and as a Bruin he held the school records in both the 5,000m & 10,000m until Meb came along. On top of that, his 2:13:21 marathon effort from 1981 still stands as the UCLA school record.

Additionally, if we're also including the female Southern California products, I believe that a young lady from Agoura HS whose maiden name was Deena Drossin has "achieved something" in the post-collegiate marathon scene over the last few years!

Wow this thread has drifted into a "is Rupp better than... (or my dogs bigger than your dog)" type of thing. Rupp ran a faster 5K than any American high school kid. That makes him the all time greatest. It also seems that his whole life has been devoted to be "the greatest". He has the special coach and all kinds of new technology to make him faster. Everyone has said we need another Pre, and Phil Knight has done his best to find another one for us. As far as the title of this post, I find my oldschool self drifting back to those thoughts of long spikes on dirt tracks. I dont think I have read anywhere that Lindgren, Nelson, Pre, or Virgen spent alot of time formulating a way to set these records of old, it just went along with the type of high school career they had. It was a different era (the 60s & 70s), Pre lived on food stamps in a trailer, Alan Webb signs a shoe contract for a million dollars. Nelson was injured three seasons straight after high school. In baseball three strikes and your out and its time to step away from the plate. Gambling only pays when your'e winning.

I'm pretty sure that Galen Rupp is not a product of Southern California. I'm almost postive that he went to Central Catholic in Portland, Oregon.

sorry - your'e right re: Rupp. Was basing that on watching him at footlocker @ mt sac.

He never said it was equivalent. Using 3000 times seem better indicator to me than 5000.

lol...so, how good was jeff nelson?

B. Mac wrote:

Rupp ran a faster 5K than any American high school kid. That makes him the all time greatest. It also seems that his whole life has been devoted to be "the greatest". He has the special coach and all kinds of new technology to make him faster. ........

Is that a criticism??? Nelson ran 140 mile a week in High School, um, he seemed pretty commited to me.

Oh wait, Nelson really "liked rock and roll" (how unique and original, that). My bad, he had outside interests and was a very well rounded kid. Running was just hobby, I forgot, my bad.

(please duly note sarcasm)

Here we go again.... wrote:

Is that a criticism??? Nelson ran 140 mile a week in High School, um, he seemed pretty commited to me.

Oh wait, Nelson really "liked rock and roll" (how unique and original, that). My bad, he had outside interests and was a very well rounded kid. Running was just hobby, I forgot, my bad.

(please duly note sarcasm)

Nelson was not averaging 140 per week like you suggest. In the summer prior to his senior year his average was closer to 100 MPW. Yeah, he popped a few higher mileage weeks with his highest being 142.

Most of the better high school programs were doing high mileage back then (80-100 MPW). It was the thing to do. And yes, it was fun as well. Many days our team would run in the morning, go to the beach all day, and then run again in the pm.

So what is your point???

70sPunk wrote:

Most of the better high school programs were doing high mileage back then (80-100 MPW). It was the thing to do

A Sports Illustrated piece on Nelson that was published around the time he set the record indicated that he averaged around 80 miles/week during the season.

Shorter Than Frank wrote:

not a better question at all...pick a year, any year and i'll give you a history lesson. but to help you, we'll start with the 1974 list i gave earlier.

i could go on and on, but don't have enough time...i'll check back later for a rebuttal or hopefully, a confirmation.

I'll bet you could, but that doesn't make your facts any more real than Vipam's phony PRs.

Andy Clifford never made it into an NCAA finals.

Ralph Serna's best marathon was 18th at Boston. His next best marathon was 11th at New York.

Jay Woods best 1500 was 3:39.6.

Shorter Than Frank wrote:

Kimball's 1/2 mile double is the fastest ever and came within :70 Mile 1974

Craig Virgin ('73 T&F News AOY) tried the 1&2 with 8:42.6 & 4:12.2 Mile 1974

Fastest mile field in HS competition ever. Mile 1974

You're only implying that Vigin only "tried" the double? Vigin did doubles in his sleep.

4/07 8:50.4 2 mile & 4:17 relay leg

4/24 8:55.6 & 4:16.6 St Clair County meet

4/28 8:59.0 Granite City Invite

5/02 9:24.2 O'Falon Relays

5/03 4:27.9 & 2:02.1 Conference meet

5/05 8:46.6 & 4:11.8 relay Orphan Relays

5/15 8:54.0 Cahokia Invite

5/18 8:53.6 & 4:10.9 District

5/21 8:48.6 & 4:08.5 Meet of Champions

5/25 4:10.0 State meet heat

5/26 8:42.6 & 4:12.2 State finals

6/01 4:05.5 Top 10 meet

6/09 8:40.9 Intl Prep Invite - HS 2 mile record

6/23 13:36.8 3 mile at Ntl Jr AAU

7/04 4:06.1 Freedom Mile (5th)

7/14 8:10.2 3000 for 3rd vs West German Jrs

7/20 8:16.0 3000 win vs Poland Jrs

7/28 13:58.2 5000 win vs USSR Jrs

BTW, the 1970 Golden West had a faster field than the 1974 Cal mile.

The 8:50.4 on 4/07 was at Alton Illinois.

After the Alton relays(4/7), Craig squeezed in a 4:15.8 mile and a triangular meet running: 4:14.5 mile & a 1:56.8 880, before St. Clare County(4/24).

The 9:24.2 - 2 mile at the O'Fallon relays(5/2) was windy, near hurricane conditions.

Kinda not wrote:

Andy Clifford never made it into an NCAA finals.

You know, Andy coached me for a very short period back in the 80's (before telling me I partied too much - oh, and that I needed to lose weight ... he was right on both counts). And I could've sworn he had an All-American certificate on his wall. In any case, he was in the 1500 final in 1979:

And 1978:

So right off the bat, we know this: you don't know shit.

Andy ran 26 sub-4 miles, training as few as 30 miles per week, and he was ranked top 10 in the world in the 1500 at least once.

He was damn good.

So what, exactly, was your point?

you have absolutely no clue about what you write...

uh, thanks ma'am, but i implied nothing...it's called ctrl+c and ctrl+v. ...and yes, merely a fact that at the time (1974) no one ran a faster double...and, i bet there hasn't been a better one since, either. how 'bout some facts contrary to my finding. love to see 'em. virgin's meet of champions looks to be the closest, just not the best.

Andy Clifford looked a lot like Brian May the guitarist for Queen.

A follow-up ... it might be that Andy C. didn't have an All-American certificate on the wall. I think he had a photo of that 1979 NCAA final, and I think what I remember is him telling me that his only regret was not finishing high enough to get All-American in the race. But my memory's foggy on that (as I said, I partied too much back then).

No, the All-American certificates were on Shorter Than Frank's walls (the other Andy).