Over FIFTY more Kenyans BUSTED!

The only thing inconvenient to my arguments would be evidence "that Kenyan and Ethiopian doping was significant before 2012, or before 2000."

This is what always seems to be forgotten.

There's been EPO in Kenya since the Italians have been "coaching" there. Now think how far back that goes...

Exactly.

Are you joking now?

Just half an hour earlier, in this very thread you argued that:

- more testing leads to more bust.

And now you are denying that:

- more testing leads to more suspicious results.

Shaking my head here...

You do not need to involve the official channels, as they are always late to thd oarty.

Just have fun run, prize money races exclude them from entry. These are mainly private concerns.

The only "Racism" on this site is yours! I'm not sure how a predominately black populated country who boasts to have the greatest distance runners on the planet, and now have a legitimate doping program which is catching more and more PED cheaters, after years of hiding behind the shield of "Oh, we're just naturally gifted and were born to run" myth be considered racist. The one great thing about world class athletics is that it's one of the most, if not the most NON RACIST sports.

Take your RACIST sh^t elsewhere.

Average ignorant letsrun statement

50 busts would be more than enough to wipe out any country from any given sport. Let's see if Kenya's competitiveness suffers even a little and European runners stop training in the Rift Valley because Kenya's running success is a lie (hint: won't happen).

Your racism is anathema to people with integrity. You also cannot read, as I never made the argument you threw out there. Because of your lack of intelligence, you have to post straw man arguments, like Coevett. You racists are destroying this site, but because your racism is so accepted here, it will remain ubiquitous.

Jakob had covid, but he still showed up and he still ran in the indoor world championship. He shows up and races all the time and has been showing up since he was like 14!

Is this something like the "A titan will fall" thread that never happened ?

Too bad i dont believe in a flat earth theory.Thats just coevett being silly.And literally all top athletes are still dopers,flat earth,round earth or triangular earth,or not .

Laughable.

Almost immediately after Kenya became independent, the runners were at or very close to the top at any men's track event.

Most successful nation at the Olympics before their two boykotts, total domination at the Commonwealth Games despite leading nations like UK, NZ, Australia competing.

... at any men's distance event (plus partly over 400m)...

Sure, theoretically, more ooc testing could lead to more suspicious results.

But you are talking about "ooc bias" as if it were something known to be signficant. When I say you have no supporting data, how should we understand the expected magnitude of this "ooc bias"? Is it 0.1? 1.0? 10.0? 40.0? Without data, we cannot begin to determine how, or even if, we need to adjust these percentages.

The ABP wasn't mandatory, and we don't know the number or distribution of OOC tests, and whether that would signficantly bias the percentages, e.g. moving Kenya and Ethiopia above the global average.

The real disparity is that I provided an example of published percentages from a rather large database (albeit unofficial), which fails to show EPO use in East Africa during 2000-2012, and then requested if anyone has data which does suggest EPO use. It's not up to me to argue that data exists showing East African doping, but it's a fact that the published blood doping data doesn't support EPO or blood doping as a significant factor, in that timeframe, both for Kenyans/Ethiopians, and the aforementioned list of 12 countries (unless you include race-walking, and women's shorter distance events, where I suggest steroids is a more likely candidate).

Well now we are getting somewhere. It is well established that there were no blood ooc tests in Kenya in the 2000s, so we can't just ignore that, just because we cannot quantify that bias.

But even when you did ignore that, you found only 12 countries (out of 53? 94? 204?) that were more suspicious in blood doping. Clearly Kenya was at absolute minimum in the worst 25% of all countries depicted (13/53 = 24.5%).

So your claim that this database "fails to show EPO use in East Africa during 2000-2012" is completely wrong, unless you mean they could have used blood transfusions instead of EPO.

Pulling out of a major marathon means nothing. It is very difficult to go through a tough marathon training period without injury or illness and so many will have to drop out. I didn't race my fall marathon because I was ill and couldn't run well, and while I'm running another to replace it without expecting much of any prizes, top runners typically do this to save their best for another marathon where they will be paid. Don't forget that for many Kenyans at a level above the American marathoners, most of their earnings come from race winnings, not lucrative contracts.

That being said, this announcement of 50 busted and so many running away from tests, on top of the 300 or so that have been busted since 2016, according to the NY Times, really underscores that Kenya has a systemic doping issue. It's not state-run but it's state-tolerated and rife throughout the whole system of coaches, agents, and athletes. It's unfortunate but the country will have to be banned until it changes because it is a joke and enormous #'s of clean athletes have been short-changed by the IAAF and Kenya's tolerance of this situation since the 1990s.

Blood testing, unavailable in-country in Kenya until after 2011, is far more reliable and sensitive than urine testing.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fighting Doping in Elite Sports: Blood for All Tests!

In the fight against doping, detection of doping substances in biological matrices is paramount. Analytical possibilities have evolved and sanctioning a doping scenario by detecting forbidden bioactive compounds circulating u...

Open link

"The concentration at which quantitative results can be reported with high degree of confidence is thus much lower in blood vs. urine."

Don’t those results make clear that Kenya is very far from dominant on track?