Good points. Ofcourse generalisations are never correct in all cases.
My post was actually about dating/the start of a relationship, not relationships in general. Dating is very onesided in the beginning. It's not an equal investment. And to invest something a person needs to see a return or he will stop investing (time and/or resources). Do this often enough and it's reasonable to think the person will stop trying.
Thanks although I'm not looking to meet anyone at the moment.
Hmm OK, thank you for your reasonable response! I do agree that something has gone wrong somewhere. Both men and women seem unhappy with the state of dating.
I don't really like the dating apps.
My personal view is that anyone can write anything on there - it doesn't have to be accurate so the bios are generally fairly worthless. At that point you're just going on a photo. I just don't really like the whole dynamic of how the apps work. It feels like you're marketing yourself and so on. Having said that, I've had some good dates from apps so I suppose it isn't all bad. I also had some shocking dates.
As a woman, I don't like it when women expect men to pay for everything. People want to be treated equally so this completely flies in the face of that.
I think the OP is wrong in viewing dating as an "investment". Its not an investment - an investment would be entering into a relationship with someone, or having kids with someone, or maybe buying a house. Social meets aren't "investments", they're just socialising. Dating is more similar to advertising or promoting a company if you prefer. You set out your stall with your best points on show in order to attract future investment. Strangers don't immediately invest in your company - you have to convince them that its worthwhile.
Is all this investment talk some kind of incel/A Tate/whatever the latest guy is? I think its often countered by women saying that they put their safety on the line by agreeing to meet a guy, and also that they have more costs in hair, make up, clothes, etc.. where males can turn up in their normal working clothes and look all right.
Initiators? Umm, ever heard of sexual harassment (SH) in this day & age, because every other guy has. Guys are so spooked as to how to act around women because of the SH threat everywhere.
If someone doesn't know the difference between flirting/being cordial with a woman and sexual assault or harrassment, then I don't know what to tell you other than go to apps, where intention of both parties is obvious. I know a lot of people are hating on the apps, but this is where they are quite useful.
If you are so socially inept that you can't flirt with someone without harassing them, you do not belong on a dating app. That's like telling someone "oh you're not very good at the flight simulator, but maybe you'll be better at flying in real life!" On a dating app, conversations are one dimensional. You don't get feedback from body language, tone of voice, etc so it's much harder to tell what you're doing wrong vs right
The easiest way to date is to leverage social connections. Make male friends with partners. Their partners probably have single friends. Get invited to group events where you can be introduced to single peers in your socioeconomic band in a fun, positive, engaging social context. Swiping on dating apps is not a fun, positive, or engaging context
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Because there are millions of average or ugly dudes out there who have successfully found partners and built families
Yea, but it was very difficult and they likely settled. Have you seen the divorce rate?
If they themselves are average or below average, it's not really "settling" for them to wind up with someone average or below average, is it?
It's fine if you feel like you could be more physically attractive and want to improve your appearance, but note that physical attractiveness will only take you so far. Social skills and tasteful appropriate displays of socioeconomic status and stability impress most women more than looks. If you prioritize looks over social skills and status, then you'll end up with a woman who specifically seeks men like you - men who prioritize looks over social skills and status. Is a partner who doesn't care about your social skills or status or stability really the type of partner you want?
Exactly - this is ideally someone that you want to spend the entire rest of your life with! That's a lot of time, a lot of hours every day. Of course there has to be some level pf physical attraction but there's no way that it's the most important thing.
There has always been the 20 percent or so of men who didn't embrace school, but in an earlier industrial based system, could find a way to make a living. Today, those jobs are gone.
Add to this the shrinking proportion of men going to college, and the dating pool for women, particularly educated woman is small. They simply are not interested. Men, in turn, respond to this lack of interest by sitting out of the game.
From Hanna Rosin's Atlantic article, the "End of Men":
"But Edin thinks the most compelling theory is that marriage has disappeared because women are setting the terms—and setting them too high for the men around them to reach. “I want that white-picket-fence dream,” one woman told Edin, and the men she knew just didn’t measure up, so she had become her own one-woman mother/father/nurturer/provider.""
Or the guy is probably just boring and/or unconfident and doesn't know how to seduce a woman. This idea that the idea of a man owning a house and having money is supposed to magically make a woman's panties wet is nonsense. Sorry Red/Black/Blue pillers, it just isn't really a relevant factor in seduction. It's relevant in terms of long-term mating investment, but not in the short-term. The only exception being gold-diggers who are trying to secure resources, but they aren't sexually attracted to you in that case, and those relationships tend to be pretty terrible.
Seducing a woman is more about eliciting sexual attraction by displaying cues of status. This is done by approaching, talking to a woman while speaking loudly (but not yelling) and holding eye contact, teasing (but not insulting), making her laugh, making the conversation sexual (without being inappropriate to the situation), touching (in an appropriate fashion after indicators of interest have been shown). This is what the guys who are getting laid are doing. If making tons of money and being good looking (which is extremely subjective to women anyways) was all it took, then these old rich dudes wouldn't be getting cheated on with bartenders and personal trainers.
"Making the conversation sexual" too soon is the no 1 reason that women reject and block men by far. So go ahead if you want multiple rejections from the majority of l women, who will think you are a low class sex crazed redneck who wants to get laid on a ONS with crazy, desperate women.
Don't "make the conversation sexual" with women you hardly know. Does the conversation have to be sexual at all? At the appropriate point, you kind of move beyond conversation. What you really need to do is to make a woman feel comfortable. You don't do that by talking about sex graphically.
However, if you are talking about men seducing other men, then this is correct advice.
Making the girl comfortable is key, yes, but the girl isn't going to know that you have a penis if you don't in some way show that you're sexually interested at some point. That doesn't have to mean just blatantly talking about sex either, although talking about prior sexual experiences is one way to break the ice. You could suggest the idea of going somewhere alone, or doing an activity that could lead to sex (i.e. hey let's get out of here, we should talk more where we can have more privacy) or involves physical contact (i.e. dancing). All of this would be done after the "groundwork" of comfort is built in order to bridge the gap from platonic conversation to romantic. Nowhere in my post did I say to just randomly start talking about sex with women.
whats up with all the lookism denialism in this thread?
women have their own money, they only need men to have pleasure, of course they'll go after the hottest ones and if they can't have them only for themselves they'll share them with other women.
why is this so taboo for some you?
>I know ugly dudes who got married
yeah like 40 years ago when you guys were on your 30s.
Things changed.
if you think women care about values, personality, your clothes, your career, how you treat others and so on you're so disconnected from reality it's actually kinda sad.
they care about your jawline, your eye area, your nose, your lips, cheekbones and d*ck size.
With dating apps & social media, women have so many options these days it's not even funny
For example, an average-looking but fit women or overweight woman who is pretty can create a profile on a dating app & within days she'll have dozens - perhaps even hundreds - of guys "liking" her & sending messages to her. And many of these guys are so desperate & thirsty for women, they"ll say or do just about anything to sleep with her.
As a consequence of all the attention & validation a women gets on a dating app or social media, she becomes conceited & picky with the type of guys she'll date.
And if you have an interest in one of these women that are on dating apps & social media, you'll be competing with tons of other guys for her attention & approval!
IMO, dating apps & social media has ruined dating for so many guys. It wasn't like this pre-internet when there wasn't so much competition for available girls in your community.
whats up with all the lookism denialism in this thread?
women have their own money, they only need men to have pleasure, of course they'll go after the hottest ones and if they can't have them only for themselves they'll share them with other women.
why is this so taboo for some you?
>I know ugly dudes who got married
yeah like 40 years ago when you guys were on your 30s.
Things changed.
if you think women care about values, personality, your clothes, your career, how you treat others and so on you're so disconnected from reality it's actually kinda sad.
they care about your jawline, your eye area, your nose, your lips, cheekbones and d*ck size.
welcome to the new normal.
I have a job that has a connection to high school. A recent graduate was quite beloved by a ton of girls there. By far his greatest trait was his kindness, not looks, not social cleverness, not intelligence. He was not kind because he thought it would get him the girls. He was just kind.
A woman who wants children would be well served to choose such a man. Nurturing caregivers are critical to the development of a child, and if she has career ambitions of her own a man with such traits would be incredibly valuable.
It’s pretty clear that you have a transactional social interaction style. That is measurably not universal
In addition to impoverished social interactions, you can expect a transactional social interaction style to predict a shorter lifespan. Now, if you have a lot to bring to the transactions, you may feel OK about things at least in the short term. In this case, it seems like most people who are arguing your side do not have that much to bring to the table which means that changing your transactional approach will likely only benefit you.
Ellen Korin had resources to help tweens and adolescents with this. I am unsure of what resources would be most useful to an adult
if you think women care about values, personality, your clothes, your career, how you treat others and so on you're so disconnected from reality it's actually kinda sad.
they care about your jawline, your eye area, your nose, your lips, cheekbones and d*ck size.
Im just going ro go with the fact that the push for Marxism in this country is their goal of eliminating men altogether. Hence all the confusion with gender identity. Women are having to play both gender roles at the same time due to the extreme shortage of real men. So, while the "men" are having meatball surgery at the taxpayer expense, society as a whole is falling apart. They used to just get women pregnant and run away without helping raise there offspring, but they arent even living up to those standards anymore.
if you think women care about values, personality, your clothes, your career, how you treat others and so on you're so disconnected from reality it's actually kinda sad.
they care about your jawline, your eye area, your nose, your lips, cheekbones and d*ck size.
welcome to the new normal.
I think you're going after the wrong women dude
I don't blame women, there's no such thing as "wrong women".
whats up with all the lookism denialism in this thread?
women have their own money, they only need men to have pleasure, of course they'll go after the hottest ones and if they can't have them only for themselves they'll share them with other women.
why is this so taboo for some you?
>I know ugly dudes who got married
yeah like 40 years ago when you guys were on your 30s.
Things changed.
if you think women care about values, personality, your clothes, your career, how you treat others and so on you're so disconnected from reality it's actually kinda sad.
they care about your jawline, your eye area, your nose, your lips, cheekbones and d*ck size.
welcome to the new normal.
This is profoundly untrue, and only the biggest losers think it as it's an absolute cope against admitting all of your obvious-from-a-mile-away character and personality flaws. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and then they complain about it on a running message board.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
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