Allie O big picture

Your behaviour on this subject is concerning. I think you might need to be on some drugs.

really weird obsession and hijack

I do agree that I strongly despise cheating in our sport, and my behaviour would likely be considered over-the-top to those who either don't care or to those who have an affinity for Allie Ostrander. Also, on LR, there will always be a number of trolls who will take pot shots just for grins.

With all the political talk, cultural topics, relationship issues, etc that dominate this forum 24-7, I suppose it is different to see someone replying frequently to a running related topic.

I'll wait for any good reason on why we should think Allie, and others who have failed drug tests and received sanctions, should be found to be clean innocent athletes. If the reasoning fails, I'll say so. The last couple of posts are just more tired fallacies.

If you know Allie personally and have been wronged by her, your behaviour is creepy. If you don't know Allie personally, your behaviour is creepy, obsessive and scary. If you really are on a crusade against doping and cheaters and your sole obsession on the topic is Allie, your behaviour is creepy, obsessive, scary and unhinged. If you attack all others who have been sanctioned due to doping violations like you attack Allie (in time, effort and vitriol), you are unhinged and really need to gain perspective... and those around you should be told about your behaviour. :)

So, basically, in other words you're saying that, as it pertains to Allie, you agree that she's a doping cheater?

Nice! :)

What exactly are you hoping to get from people? Everyone has acknowledged that she failed a doping test. Some (maybe most, maybe a minority) believe her acne explanation. Was she wrong in how she handled the medication? Yes, she violated the rules and accepted the punishment.

Everyone except you seems to have moved on. The question then becomes why? So, do you know her personally and have animosity? Or are you against doping in general? If so, do you go after all others that have tested positive with the same rigour that you have with Allie? If not, why not? If you do go after all others who have tested positive, where do you come up with the anger, energy and time? But most of all, don't you think that that behaviour warrants professional intervention?

She hasn’t really performed well enough recently for me to believe there’s any chance she could be doping

First off I'm very anti-doping and consider myself strict #cleansport. I believe in lifetime bans for substances like EPO, HGH, Testosterone etc. I think the 2-3 year ban is a slap on the wrist and there is nothing worse than seeing guys like that UTMB cheat from a few years ago (Gonzalo Calisto) back racing big time ultras and doing well.

I love iRunFar's media policy of always listing an athlete's infractions as a permanent record (i.e. the previous EPO cheats in mountain-ultra-trail running like Gonzalo and Elisa Desco etc) every time they write about them in race results or a pre-race preview.

I also generally like Western States 100 "lifetime ban" policy of not letting in any former convicted dopers with a history. Keeps guys like Lance Armstrong away as he used to snoop around the event.

However, I do see Allie's case as a bit different from these EPO and testosterone cases. From a scientific standpoint (and looking at her results/progression), I don't think she was on (or is on) any sort of banned PED despite testing positive for that masking agent. This isn't like a Shelby "Burritogate" case at all! It's really a night and day kind of difference.

It really does seem like an honest (and silly) mistake to make with the acne cream. I mean, as an athlete one should know the WADA/USADA list cold, but this particular substance is a little more obscure than say, nandrolone.

That being said, it's a slippery slope with even TUEs and these "more minor infractions." I can see why many want to it be "black and white" (either you test positive for any sort of WADA banned substance or you don't).

There also needs to be more of a crack down in mountain-ultra-trail running because it's the "wild west" with hardly any sort of real WADA testing and private races just making up their own rules that are not uniform. No doubt there is a population of mountain-ultra-trail runners (some sponsored and making money of the sport and social media attention) that are likely on big time PEDs like EPO/HGH/Testosterone. You wouldn't even have to try very hard not to get caught!

What we need is more crack down with more harsh penalties and random out of comp testing up to WADA standards.

I'm not sure banning a runner like Allie O from the Western States 100 for life is the most effective solution for that (based on their policy and the nature/substance of her infraction), when there are actual big-time PED users out there doing ultras who are not getting caught because of the lack of testing in mountain-ultra-trail running in general. And I'm also pretty sure she's not looking to do a 100-miler anytime soon either though....so there's that!

It's the people that are running well (or set crazy records) that you really need to look at.

That’s a nice post, but if we want a clean sport the penalties need to be severe for both minor and major infractions… for the fast and the not so fast. If the penalties are light and the societal outlook is indifferent, then we’re inviting more and more cheating.

To the point of this post, what is the big picture for Allie. I really hope that it's that she can compete in what trail races that interest her. It might be that there are some races that she can't compete in, some that she can. That's just the fact from having a suspension due to a doping violation.

Where some people are getting off the rails is context. Context matters. I know people will push the limits. Y'all probably remember cheaters (Patrick Willis) who cut courses at races like Rocky Raccoon 100 (a race that nobody cares about, and it doesn't win you anything). So, cheating happens even when you stand very little to gain. Allie could be lumped into that group, but we don't have evidence of that. What we know is she did take a banned substance around that time and her videos of her running around the same time.

Like most have said, the results around that time, her constant documentation, etc., show someone who isn't doping. It wasn't a "silly" mistake, as Sage phrased it, but a stupid mistake to not get a TUE exception (or look up the drug before you take it). But making a stupid mistake does not make one a cheater.

So, what's her bigger picture? In the trail world, there are going to be a minority of races that won't let her compete (or will say she cannot podium or receive prize money). That's a consequence of this stupid mistake. But she'll still have plenty of opportunities. She will have sponsorships. She will still have her fans who watch her on YouTube.

Perhaps as trail running grows, evolves, and considers things they will change their stance on violations like this. I don't think Allie is a cheat, but I know she took a banned substance without a TUE. I don't even agree with Irunfars policy to list everything. I think they also need a more nuanced view of things, but it's their website and their decision.

It's really sad to me that now anytime Allie races, posts a new YouTube video, or gets in the news, there will be people who post to complain she's a cheater, I guess that's their right, but it doesn't mean they are right.

Hopefully other runners will check the global list before they ingest prescribed medications. And I hope that trail running gets better about testing athletes as I agree with Sage that that area of running needs monitoring.

AllieO knowingly broke the rules. By definition, that's cheating.

I respect, however, that you admit that for her to have not known the rules, she would have to be incredibly stupid. Where I differ from you is that I don't think she is nearly as stupid as you think she is.

I agree that hopefully runners in the future will opt to not be cheaters, like Allie Ostrander, Lance, Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, Wang Junxia, and all the others.

What if the antidoping agency later granted her a TUE for the same drug? How would that change your argument? She might be taking the same drug legally now with a TUE for all we know.

The statement by the antidoping agency (who is more suspicious of true dopers as anyone - because it is their job!) suggested that it was a TUE issue, not that they thought she actually was trying to use it as a masking agent. So conceivably, they might have granted her a TUE.

What kind of "scientific standpoint" are you smoking? You are not a scientist. You are just spewing nonsense that you have no expertise in.

There are plenty of proven dopers I can't cite who suck even when they dope. Just because Allie cheated and ran average times doesn't make her any different from other cheaters, especially when we still don't know what she was masking. Allie's case is the exact same as Shelby's except Shelby took better drugs and responded better.

Let's propose the death penalty for speeding. +0.1 mph over the speed limit on any part of any road? Off with your head! Come on. We can do it better than Singapore.

Lets look at some facts:

Allie took a banned substance.

This banned substance is a masking agent.

Allie admitted to taking it.

Allie had a prescription and, as a pro, should know that every prescribed substance could be on a banned list and should investigate this before taking it.

None of that is in dispute. There are only two plausible:

She was doping and taking this masking agent to hide it.

She was not doping but is some combination of dumb and lazy because she didn't bother with a TUE.

I don't really know what happened to her but she fell a long way from a high school runner that had a feature in Outside magazine to a trail runner that failed miserably in her first real trail race post Nnnormal sponsorship. A couple observations I have about her:

She is generally likable and has a better personality than some of the boring runners that are much more successful.

She has to decide if she is a runner or an "influencer". If you want to run get the f off of social media and run. If you want to be an influencer stop trying to be a serious runner and go make cringey YouTube videos. He shtick has gotten old and that loser she hangs out with, another failed runner that is more into making videos than actually competing, is dragging her down with him.

From your post:

What if

She might

For all we know

suggested

not that they thought

conceivably

might have

LOLOLOLOL

Gee, I don't know, what if you and I were time traveling Olympic champion trillionaires!?!?! Hmmmm... I guess we'll never know.

Yes

a video of Allie fans

I know a fair amount about PEDs....I've been racing guys that were later caught taking EPO. Do I have a PhD? No. Did I take chem and bio at Cornell? Yes.

The "science" generally shows (as in Shelby's case) a certain response and progression. Usually relative to the athlete's performances themselves (taking their training and age and other lifestyle factors into consideration) There are scientific studies that show improvements in running times from things like HGH and EPO used as clear "big time" PEDs.

Not all drugs are the same and it's not a simple black and white of: "doping" or "not doping" or "masking" or "not masking". We don't know what "Allie was masking" because she probably wasn't masking anything! You are assuming that she was trying to mask something and making the comparison to Shelby (who was banned for an anabolic steroid no less!). I already outlined the "big PEDs" like EPO and Testosterone and HGH. Don't you think we should treat those a little differently than someone who say trips a positive for something like THC?! (which is also regulated by WADA).

Shelby's case is nothing like Allie O's because Shelby has an insane story about a burrito from a food truck to explain her positive test (again back to the science here!). Her progression in faster times/improvement and body composition changes were also quite drastic during that time.