At her prime, showing the power of the East German steroid system. Coming into this meet she was the current 200 & 400 WR holder, and during this meet in Oc...
For me the "view" or snapshot of the telecast at 300m is just comical/sad/telling. It's about as good an example visually of the insane impact of doping vs not. Koch isn't running anything earth shattering in terms of the human race (as 47.60 is a good HS boys time) but you have her and Vladykina so far ahead of the rest of the field who are running 49-50s pace and the thing is they are all lined up on the stagger as if they are all running that speed.
Back to one of the narratives of this post, better basic athletic talent and shoes do not make this gap up and even surpass it. These records might legitimately never be broken unless someone is so far ahead of testing/the capabilities of the laboratories moving forwards.
I don't think many posters appreciate the impact of PEDs vs. shoe and track technology, especially with respect to Women's sports.
Just look at the East German Swimming Team and their results in 1976 to 1988.
In 1976 the women won 11/13 Gold Medals and six silver medals whereas they only had one male medalist (Bronze). The US was a swimming powerhouse and traditionally had won the most medals on both the men's and women's side then all of a sudden east Germany becomes the most dominant women's swim team in the world. In 1972 and 1968 both the US Men and Women were dominant in swimming events as they had been since the 40s. The men continued to dominant in the late 70s and 80s where the women were displaced by the East Germans seemingly overnight.
The fact is steroids / testosterone provides women with such a bigger boost in sports like Track and swimming than any PED that men can take. EPO was a huge lift too but the ability to build so much more muscle mass by a women on steroids relative to a normal female provides a much bigger competitive advantage.
So how then was Babashoff able to get 4 silvers and a gold in Montreal ‘76? 3 of which were individual silvers. She beat all but one east german in all the events. And how were the US women able to get gold in the 4x1 free? They beat much of the team!
Roids can get women far. Obviously. But how did Babashoff manage it? Training, sure—on a base of extreme talent.
I get the merit in going down the list of names currently in the 4 and 8, and suggesting that they are nowhere near. I disagree. If Mu gave a crap, she would already have at least come close, if not done it. Look at how close The Gazelle came in the 4—in fact, put her on one of today’s tracks, let her train on one of today’s tracks, with whatever people are doing these days, and imo she’s got it.
The 100mH has gone, the 100 and 200 are/have been under serious threat, and there is no great reason that I can see why the 400 and 800 should be far behind. Look at HOW WVN does the 4, as opposed to Ackbar: light years more talent. Ditto Bolt vs Ackbar in the 2.
And putting aside talent for a moment, look at how close Naser came before being cut short. You think some such person can’t manage things well enough to get there before they are cut off, like Kipruto did relatively recently?
You are an excited moron with your three posts. BTW, all Americans on this forum don't like Naser as she is too fast for them, they prefer slower American losers.
Or perhaps we just don't like cheats; their enablers and apologists.
I don't think many posters appreciate the impact of PEDs vs. shoe and track technology, especially with respect to Women's sports.
Just look at the East German Swimming Team and their results in 1976 to 1988.
In 1976 the women won 11/13 Gold Medals and six silver medals whereas they only had one male medalist (Bronze). The US was a swimming powerhouse and traditionally had won the most medals on both the men's and women's side then all of a sudden east Germany becomes the most dominant women's swim team in the world. In 1972 and 1968 both the US Men and Women were dominant in swimming events as they had been since the 40s. The men continued to dominant in the late 70s and 80s where the women were displaced by the East Germans seemingly overnight.
The fact is steroids / testosterone provides women with such a bigger boost in sports like Track and swimming than any PED that men can take. EPO was a huge lift too but the ability to build so much more muscle mass by a women on steroids relative to a normal female provides a much bigger competitive advantage.
So how then was Babashoff able to get 4 silvers and a gold in Montreal ‘76? 3 of which were individual silvers. She beat all but one east german in all the events. And how were the US women able to get gold in the 4x1 free? They beat much of the team!
Roids can get women far. Obviously. But how did Babashoff manage it? Training, sure—on a base of extreme talent.
I get the merit in going down the list of names currently in the 4 and 8, and suggesting that they are nowhere near. I disagree. If Mu gave a crap, she would already have at least come close, if not done it. Look at how close The Gazelle came in the 4—in fact, put her on one of today’s tracks, let her train on one of today’s tracks, with whatever people are doing these days, and imo she’s got it.
The 100mH has gone, the 100 and 200 are/have been under serious threat, and there is no great reason that I can see why the 400 and 800 should be far behind. Look at HOW WVN does the 4, as opposed to Ackbar: light years more talent. Ditto Bolt vs Ackbar in the 2.
And putting aside talent for a moment, look at how close Naser came before being cut short. You think some such person can’t manage things well enough to get there before they are cut off, like Kipruto did relatively recently?
FFS enough with the Naser comparison. You should be using Miller-Uibo as the standard because Naser was doped to the gills. How many times do you have to be told this? To use a druggie as someone who can break a WR established via drugs is blatantly illogical.
I don't think many posters appreciate the impact of PEDs vs. shoe and track technology, especially with respect to Women's sports.
Just look at the East German Swimming Team and their results in 1976 to 1988.
In 1976 the women won 11/13 Gold Medals and six silver medals whereas they only had one male medalist (Bronze). The US was a swimming powerhouse and traditionally had won the most medals on both the men's and women's side then all of a sudden east Germany becomes the most dominant women's swim team in the world. In 1972 and 1968 both the US Men and Women were dominant in swimming events as they had been since the 40s. The men continued to dominant in the late 70s and 80s where the women were displaced by the East Germans seemingly overnight.
The fact is steroids / testosterone provides women with such a bigger boost in sports like Track and swimming than any PED that men can take. EPO was a huge lift too but the ability to build so much more muscle mass by a women on steroids relative to a normal female provides a much bigger competitive advantage.
Anabolic steroids have a huge impact on a female. Women, on average, have about one tenth the testosterone level an average man has. Give the female anabolic steroids boosting her T levels & her endocrine system completely changes dramatically improving protein synthesis thus creating lean muscle mass & huge increases in strength.
I've seen women physique athletes over the years at my gym transform their physiques using just a low dose anabolic steroid(s). Their muscle development is incredible, their gains in strength unbelievable, their loss in bodyfat remarkable - they look like men & act like men!
Turinbol is popular with women athletes because even though it's similar to Dianabol in molecular structure, it has far less water retention & doesn't aromatize making it ideal for women..
The Russian women runners that were winning medals in the WC/Olympic competitions from 2009 - 2013 (sprints up to the steeplechase) were using turinbol as their top steroid choice.
With the most likely prospects being Mu and Sydney (Naser already having been banned) I'm not hopeful any new record holders will be clean. I don't trust Kersee.
So dopers breaking records set by dopers. Not really "progress" isn't it?
I don't think many posters appreciate the impact of PEDs vs. shoe and track technology, especially with respect to Women's sports.
Just look at the East German Swimming Team and their results in 1976 to 1988.
In 1976 the women won 11/13 Gold Medals and six silver medals whereas they only had one male medalist (Bronze). The US was a swimming powerhouse and traditionally had won the most medals on both the men's and women's side then all of a sudden east Germany becomes the most dominant women's swim team in the world. In 1972 and 1968 both the US Men and Women were dominant in swimming events as they had been since the 40s. The men continued to dominant in the late 70s and 80s where the women were displaced by the East Germans seemingly overnight.
The fact is steroids / testosterone provides women with such a bigger boost in sports like Track and swimming than any PED that men can take. EPO was a huge lift too but the ability to build so much more muscle mass by a women on steroids relative to a normal female provides a much bigger competitive advantage.
So how then was Babashoff able to get 4 silvers and a gold in Montreal ‘76? 3 of which were individual silvers. She beat all but one east german in all the events. And how were the US women able to get gold in the 4x1 free? They beat much of the team!
Roids can get women far. Obviously. But how did Babashoff manage it? Training, sure—on a base of extreme talent.
I get the merit in going down the list of names currently in the 4 and 8, and suggesting that they are nowhere near. I disagree. If Mu gave a crap, she would already have at least come close, if not done it. Look at how close The Gazelle came in the 4—in fact, put her on one of today’s tracks, let her train on one of today’s tracks, with whatever people are doing these days, and imo she’s got it.
The 100mH has gone, the 100 and 200 are/have been under serious threat, and there is no great reason that I can see why the 400 and 800 should be far behind. Look at HOW WVN does the 4, as opposed to Ackbar: light years more talent. Ditto Bolt vs Ackbar in the 2.
And putting aside talent for a moment, look at how close Naser came before being cut short. You think some such person can’t manage things well enough to get there before they are cut off, like Kipruto did relatively recently?
Not Naser again! And Kipruto. Give me a break. Do you guys just pretend doping violations mean nothing?
the east german program from cradle to grave is well documented, and the entire of east europe considers that it is a given that everyone is juiced to the gills. for ever.
guys like sprintgeezer need to do their reading on the east german protocol from the east germans themselves, if they want to comment with any accumen.
47 mid 400 is impossible for a woman without elevated testosterone,
the 153 800 is doable for Mu only, who is the rarest of birds, i gather is not juiced. there are no symptoms. the symptoms stick out like a sore thumb.
mu with the 48 high in the 400 and with only a bit of aerobic hits the WR.
the aerobic work can be something like 3 minute repeats up a hill at threshold in the winter.
this is the very best work for any runner really outside 100-200, and even then they will benefit.
for sure.
once mu has the WR, retire as the GOAT and go modeling.
Not Naser again! And Kipruto. Give me a break. Do you guys just pretend doping violations mean nothing?
Well the thread title is "Kratochvilova's and Koch's records will be broken", which sounds reasonable, not "Kratochvilova's and Koch's records will be broken by a clean athlete", which sounds ridiculous.
Kipruto, like Kiptum, is actually a great example in that context because he showed that WRs can be broken while doped.
FFS enough with the Naser comparison. You should be using Miller-Uibo as the standard because Naser was doped to the gills. How many times do you have to be told this?
Naser wasn't doped moron and was tested more than 19 times in 2019. How many times do you have to be told this?
Not Naser again! And Kipruto. Give me a break. Do you guys just pretend doping violations mean nothing?
Naser was tested more than 19 times in 2019. Stop your bullshi* American losers frustrated by slow US results in the 400. BTW, SML, your hope that you think is super fast flat, because she was first fast 400 woman with good height, coordination and technique to run the time that should be run in 400 hurdles, will never get near ~48 seconds
Not Naser again! And Kipruto. Give me a break. Do you guys just pretend doping violations mean nothing?
Well the thread title is "Kratochvilova's and Koch's records will be broken", which sounds reasonable, not "Kratochvilova's and Koch's records will be broken by a clean athlete", which sounds ridiculous.
Kipruto, like Kiptum, is actually a great example in that context because he showed that WRs can be broken while doped.
There is no argument that world records can be broken by dopers. That is how they are generally broken. The only debate is whether a clean athlete can break a doped world record. But there's really no argument there, either. They can't.
Not Naser again! And Kipruto. Give me a break. Do you guys just pretend doping violations mean nothing?
Naser was tested more than 19 times in 2019. Stop your bullshi* American losers frustrated by slow US results in the 400. BTW, SML, your hope that you think is super fast flat, because she was first fast 400 woman with good height, coordination and technique to run the time that should be run in 400 hurdles, will never get near ~48 seconds
So what if she was tested. She failed enough tests to get a doping violation. That says enough. Clean, she has no chance of a world record.
FFS enough with the Naser comparison. You should be using Miller-Uibo as the standard because Naser was doped to the gills. How many times do you have to be told this?
Naser wasn't doped moron and was tested more than 19 times in 2019. How many times do you have to be told this?
She has a doping violation. That says it is more likely she doped than not.
the east german program from cradle to grave is well documented, and the entire of east europe considers that it is a given that everyone is juiced to the gills. for ever.
guys like sprintgeezer need to do their reading on the east german protocol from the east germans themselves, if they want to comment with any accumen.
47 mid 400 is impossible for a woman without elevated testosterone,
the 153 800 is doable for Mu only, who is the rarest of birds, i gather is not juiced. there are no symptoms. the symptoms stick out like a sore thumb.
mu with the 48 high in the 400 and with only a bit of aerobic hits the WR.
the aerobic work can be something like 3 minute repeats up a hill at threshold in the winter.
this is the very best work for any runner really outside 100-200, and even then they will benefit.
for sure.
once mu has the WR, retire as the GOAT and go modeling.
The gap between Mu and the world record is nearly 2 seconds. For that distance, it is unbridgeable without doping. It is like a (clean) 1.43 runner beating Rudisha's mark. That won't happen either.
Not Naser again! And Kipruto. Give me a break. Do you guys just pretend doping violations mean nothing?
Well the thread title is "Kratochvilova's and Koch's records will be broken", which sounds reasonable, not "Kratochvilova's and Koch's records will be broken by a clean athlete", which sounds ridiculous.
Kipruto, like Kiptum, is actually a great example in that context because he showed that WRs can be broken while doped.
The title was intentional.
There are clean athletes, there are doped athletes. Unlike what an earlier poster suggested, I am all too aware of the DDR program, which practices rather quickly appeared in also the USSR, Bulgaria, etc.
So let’s say that Babashoff may have been Phelps. That would prove my point.
PHELPS. The GOAT of his generation. He was very recent, relative to the 400 and 800 records—and all but one of his records has been broken…and Marchand will get the 400IM this year. And Milak absolutely destroyed the previously heroic 1:51.51 200 fly.
Yes these are males, yes there may be less of an effect of ped’s than women doing tons of horse roids…but Phelps had talent, I would say more so than either K or K. Look at his junior record vs theirs.
And even at that, there are many who suspect Milak of using, in this modern era of biological passport. Maybe it can be done.
Part of me thinks that athletes nowadays just don’t care about such things—or maybe the women’s records are so far out there that they’re not worth thinking about unless you’re Jamaican. It’s no accident that the women’s records have all been on the books a long time—except hurdles, which can require strategy and execution to a higher degree.
Even though ETH came close in the 100 (imo she got it), and Jackson in the 200, consider SAFP. Her 100m season last year was epic, maybe equal to FloJo’s best season, by average time. It can be done, apparently.
FFS enough with the Naser comparison. You should be using Miller-Uibo as the standard because Naser was doped to the gills. How many times do you have to be told this?
Naser wasn't doped moron and was tested more than 19 times in 2019. How many times do you have to be told this?
keep trying to sing that idiotic tune. How is it working for you?