Two more Kenyans banned Feb. 6, 2023

Smokescreen implies that he knows the first thing he is talking about.

I didn't choose to bring 40% into the conversation, and already by then, it was no longer about two more Kenyan female runners busted.

Sure the marathon men are not the same pool of athletes that the AIU tested in 2022, but no matter how you slice it, the quantity of Kenyan athletes is consistently high across all distance events, when compared to the rest of the world combined. Even your ironic Olympic medal example makes the same point, when done right.

But do you have a better non-ironic, non-cherry picked method that would better represent the set of athletes tested by the AIU in 2022?

10.2.1.2 says the ADO has the burden, so your claim of "always" is incorrect.

If you want to play "read the rules" games, then live by your own rules and use the correct terms found in the rules.

You said "prove accidental" which has no bearing on anything in the rules.

You also say "prove innocence" and "prove guilt", but the rules never once mention "guilt" or "innocence".

Had you read and understood the rules, and had you performed the simplest of internet lookups and had you read the Tribunal's comments, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Don't blame me for your own fundamental failure to figure out things on your own, especially after I gave you the correct answer to your initial question.

"across all distance events" is also cherry-picking because we are talking about AIU's 40%, not letsrun's preferred events. AIU is responsible for all WA events.

A better, neutral method to check for dominance would be to look at the last WA world championship (or at WA events at the last Olympics). The last event was here in 2022: the Kenyans won 10 out of 147 medals, some 7%, compared to the rest of the world combined, across all WA disciplines. 7%. That by no means justifies 40% of all positive tests, compared to the rest of the world combined, across all WA disciplines.

Have we switched to sheer numbers, not dominance? AIU publishes regularly who is in their pools. A quick glance shows currently about 130 Kenyans of 800+ athletes. 16%, also a far cry from 40%.

I live in a world were guilt means “ you done it” and innocence means “ you did not do it”.

Please join this world.

10.2.1.2 is subject to the athlete ( the accused) be able to prove ( burden) where the substance ( drug) came from and from the analysis of the prosecutions own lab which is termed to be a fact .

Head ; ie pointed bit of a needle, now spin about on to try and get out of the language used by normal people.

Look I don’t think anyone here is truly dialed into Ethiopian anti-doping, but the AIU is on the record as being satisfied with the testing situation. Most Ethiopians also compete more regularly and at bigger meets than other stars.

In 2022, you can see this AIU release on their satisfaction with Ethiopia’s out of competition testing:

worldathletics.org

Significant improvement in domestic testing sees all athletes from high-risk countries eligible for Oregon22 | NEWS | World Athletics

Open link

Same organisation that's busted most of the Kenyans: AIU

A number of Ethiopians have been busted. Two Eritreans were busted several weeks ago. Ethiopians and Eritreans competing for other countries have been busted.

They are just not being busted on anything like the scale of Kenyans (but then, no other country is). We know that until recently, EPO was openly available over the counter in most High Street pharmacies, just like in Kenya.

I guess the AIU testers in Ethiopia are Ethiopians, just as the AIU testers in Kenya are Kenyans? The Kenyan testers give several days advance text warning of 'random' tests, and accept tea money bribes from those caught glowing. Who knows what Ethiopian testers do? (Kenya is ranked 123rd least corrupt country on Earth, Ethiopia is 92nd (GB is 18th, Australia 13th, New Zealand 2nd)).

These women "did it", succeeded to prove "unintentional", and got a ban. There was no option of "proving innocence" available to these athletes.

10.2.1.2 cannot be made more plain: "... and the Anti-Doping Organization can establish that the anti-doping rule violation was intentional". It is not "always" on the athlete.

It's all in the rules. Read them and understand them.

You seem to have read the decisions for these athletes ; can you share these with us please.Or have you made it all up.

You conspicuously avoid dealing with the comment on the whole of 10.2 which firmly has the burden on the athlete for both non specified and specified substances.

Read the rules: all of them!

You are simply trying to argue that Kenyan doping isn't as bad as the percentages of doping busts suggest. Of course you will argue that.

AIU has made big inroads into Kenyan doping.

I am satisfied that the Kenyan doping control were very weak and allowed evasion and all sorts of missed test excuses and lies.

Coe said doping was not organised and I am happy to accept this but the weak and corrupt doping control made organised doping not necessary.

What we see in Kenya we are likely to see throughout the world and this means that doping control has created the most uneven playing field in the history of sport.

I haven't read the decisions -- I just found a better article summarizing the findings with a little more detail.

Again, just now, in under 2 minutes I managed to find both decisions online.

If you weren't being such a jerk about it, I would have been happy to provide all the links.

I looked again at the WADA Code 2021, and found no such comment on the whole of 10.2.

Picking the WCA is also cherry-picking. The 2022 AIU report is not yet available, but in 2021, the AIU collected samples at 144 competitions sanctioned by WA. It is unlikely that the pinnacle championship event with a subset of disciplines with limited participation would be a representative cross-section of 144 competitions.

Regarding pools, in 2021, although 839 athletes were in the International Registered Testing Pool, the AIU collected samples from 2,229 different athletes. So while 130 out of 800+ athletes (16%) might be in the testing pool, this is not necessarily indicative of the number of samples collected from Kenyans by the AIU in 2022.

What is sure that leaking the stat of 40% positive tests from Kenyans without providing context is not neutral.

Several reasons WCA is not representative is that 1) WCA limits each country to 3 or 4 participants, and 2) not all WA disciplines are WCA disciplines, and 3) many of the 40% were not World Championship athletes.

The point of looking at the larger quantity of high performers was as a rough proxy indicating there is certainly a higher number of samples collected and athletes tested as a consequence of the higher quantity of elite performances. If (hypothetically) 40% of the samples are from Kenyans, then 40% positive tests would tell us that the positive rate for Kenya is about the same it is globally, and the large positive result is a direct result of the larger number of samples collected.

All of this so far assumed uniform testing across all events and all WA athletes, which we also know from AIU reports is not the case. In the AIUs words: "The AIU’s testing is focused on elite top-end athletes and is designed to be specific, targeted and intelligence-led."

The AIU testing is biased towards distance events, especially the roads, and Africans:

In 2021, 61.4% of the AIU samples came from Long Distance Road (32.7%), Long Distance Track (17.8%), and Middle Distance track (10.9%) events.

In 2021, 39.4% of samples were from Africa.

I provided you the words of the AIU explaining what AIU testing is and isn't, in order to gain a better perspective.

By pointing you to more information from the source, I have created one path for you to become that much less ignorant.

I've said this on other Kenyan doping threads: Why can't race and meet directors just not invite Kenyans?

If WA won't ban the whole country then the people who run the races and meets can.

Athletes can make their displeasure known when a race invites them.

Send the link to the decisions please.

Because you feel much more strongly about it than them. Plain and simple.