When we find out what the new PED is?

This only highlights your inability to comprehend, and accurately repeat, what "my arguments" really are.

The "fact that dopers are able to effectively conceal their use" only confirms my conclusion that largely ignorant doping worshipping fans like Armstronglivs, as well as former anti-doping heads, like David Howman, don't really know who is doping nor whether the dopers are the same athletes who are performing. On a scale of 1-100, your knowledge and WADA's knowledge, is less than 1-2.

But the ignorance of fans and anti-doping heads do not form the basis of my scepticism regarding performance enhancement for distance running events.

The basis for my scepticism regarding performance enhancement is the lack of predicted globally distributed performances from allegedly super-powerful drugs allegedly abused by athletes globally.

I didn't claim "monster drops in times". You don't know which commenter you are responding to. Figures.

But I do maintain doping continues unchecked. That is also the consensus of those like Howman, who say doping is ahead of antidoping and far more dope than are caught.

The rest of your comment about "they" shows you don't have a clue about doping in the sport.

Howman and antidoping experts estimate that far more athletes dope than are caught. They also say that it is at the top of sport. Unless doping doesn't aid performance, it must be logically construed that dopers are likely to be found amongst the most successful. It does aid performance, or after decades of use it would be seen as no more performance-enhancing than Popeye's spinach.

It's you who fail to realize I am not talking about "doping in the sport" per se, but talking about a "new PED" which can cause "monster drops in times and performances that used to be considered extraordinary". That is the thread we are in now.

If you are responding to me -- and you are -- that is the topic. Or alternatively "When will we ever find out of the old PEDs are truly performance enhancing?"

You didn't dispute that you don't know any of these things "I know you don't really know".

Here, I don't really need a clue about "doping in the sport", because I have accepted without contest all of your clueless claims about the existence and presence of old and new doping in sport, among athletes from all nations in all sports, and I have accepted your claims that even the top anti-doping ex-chiefs don't really have a clue about the true extent.

But what does that have to do with elite distance running performance? I know you don't know.

Even the best experts have to estimate because they don't really have a clue either, about the true extent.

But I agree with you that the belief in doping among athletes and their coaches is widespread and deep and goes to the top, and has been for decades.

Your inference and pseudo-logical rationalization that doping aids performance is just your inference and pseudo-logical rationalization, as a gullible fan without a clue -- this is not a substitute for knowledge.

That Armstronglivs possesses very little real knowledge about doping-related performance is not extraordinary.

And I don't really make a claim, but simply asked a related question.

To the extent I ever make a claim about performance (or lack thereof), the evidence is 60+ years of historical performances.

So what's the new snake oil doc?

MOTS-c........... MOTS-c.......... MOTS-c

1.

I can say with high degree of certainty that

this is the new endurance drug .

A mitochondrial dervived peptide,

increases aicar through roof , so should

easily be tested for .

2.

the longer the distance, the better advantage

why 1500 w.r , Will be difficult to obtain unless at Monaco ,etc .

Times seeing now in it aided by it , so seeing

it's general peak and for 800m too.

3.

It's The shoes , was a brilliant bluff by Nike

and top promoters and managers.

So obvious, why 10,000m record with wave light.

And the 2 hour project were pushed as were.

once this stuff came on scene.

So obvious, grant fisher or the two Canadian

guys stick out like nothing,

where have you been the past few decades.

Also where have Norwegian's been.

Cycling has changed too,

The Slovenian , the Dutch ,

more successful lone insane breakaways.

Involved in endurance for 400mh too , crazy.

4.

As for sprinting and power events the drug

Increases muscle contractions.

Won't name it , as these two Peds go together, pushed at same time and origin.

Started with Coleman in 60m record

and very few untill 2020 really hit scene

in many events

Look at shot putt ,

javelin from many different countries now.

Assume in baseball too , but definitely

only just , obviously point to guy named

and trout .

Sprinting has changed. , So obvious.

where have all these Teenagers arrived

from all of sudden.

Even got 16 year olds , from Thailand .

Just had a Brazilian 18 year old run 20.12

in 200 m .

The 'italian ' Jacobs .........

lots of different doping groups in many countries, just mentioned Brazil and

got a good shot putter too

1.

Yes the Kenyans are now sprinting supreme

if want to see what this can do.

In commonwealth games the other Kenyan

male sprinter went from 10.60 to 10.10

if remember at age 24.

And the women's side too.

2.

Also get much much better consistency

with this stuff, hit peak times easier.

And aids shorter belly muscled athletes .

Aren’t you the guy who called out Malmo for doping & went berserk when anyone suggested that Salazar was involved in doping back in 2013?

No idea who you are/what your background is. But a mitochondrial derived peptide can't increase AICAR through the roof. AICAR is a synthetic substance (and banned drug) designed as an analog of AMP which will activate cell signalling networks. So there is no "baseline" AICAR to increase. Or are you saying that MOTS-C (which to my knowledge has only ever been used scientifically in cells and mice) and AICAR can act synergistically?

MOTS-c............ MOTS-c................. MOTS-c

now you know how ,

How Laura Muir does it , etc.

Did the hour record just go in cycling

to an Italian , by a good measure .

Watch the track cycling next

and sure to see these two Peds involved.