i don't even bother with cross country anymore, but i took a guess that newbury won the 2021 state meet. so then i googled it and not surprisingly, newbury had 1-2-3-4-11(14)(46). this team must've went up to mammoth lakes, run 100+ mpw, and on a bunch of supplements or something. this is crazy that a single team has several runners that can completely dominate the rest of the state.
i don't even bother with cross country anymore, but i took a guess that newbury won the 2021 state meet. so then i googled it and not surprisingly, newbury had 1-2-3-4-11(14)(46). this team must've went up to mammoth lakes, run 100+ mpw, and on a bunch of supplements or something. this is crazy that a single team has several runners that can completely dominate the rest of the state.
They actually finished 1-2-3-4-6 (7) (19) in team scoring. In individual placings they went 1-2-3-4-7 (9) (26).
How was it ever overcrowded from Colin's perspective, though? His brother Aaron pops out in front straight away as Colin follows. There is a bubble around Colin with nobody ever fighting him for position. Overcrowding was truly never a factor for Colin the entire race.
Your splits for Colin are off, as is your math because he was nowhere close to being four seconds faster than goal pace his first 100.
Let me help you all with the math and actual splits and then tell me if you really think pacing was a problem here. Apologies for the formatting of the "spreadsheet" below, but LR is run by absolute dinosaurs ffs.
Pacing was totally reasonable and over-crowding was a non-factor.
I wrote that after doing 5 hours of math hw so my brain was pretty fried lol. I think I meant that his 400 pace was 4+ seconds off after his 100 split. He was on pace for well under 60 when goal pace was ~64. Thanks for the table btw, idk where you got the splits but it's good info :)
No one was ever fighting Colin for position, but the track being overcrowded is what caused them to go through 100/200 in 14/29. I don't think they'd have gone out faster than 63 if there had been 15 people in the race. You have to go out fast if you want a shot at placing well in a 30+ person field where everyone goes through the mile in under 4:30. If you want a shot at a record, you have to be out in front of all of the people going out fast.
They already had 4 out of the top 5 positions at about 50 meters in so there was no need to press things to 29/60. They made a mistake and that's OK. Even the greatest can hit a bump in the road. It was still an excellent performance that they should collectively be proud of.
How was it ever overcrowded from Colin's perspective, though? His brother Aaron pops out in front straight away as Colin follows. There is a bubble around Colin with nobody ever fighting him for position. Overcrowding was truly never a factor for Colin the entire race.
Your splits for Colin are off, as is your math because he was nowhere close to being four seconds faster than goal pace his first 100.
Let me help you all with the math and actual splits and then tell me if you really think pacing was a problem here. Apologies for the formatting of the "spreadsheet" below, but LR is run by absolute dinosaurs ffs.
Pacing was totally reasonable and over-crowding was a non-factor.
I wrote that after doing 5 hours of math hw so my brain was pretty fried lol. I think I meant that his 400 pace was 4+ seconds off after his 100 split. He was on pace for well under 60 when goal pace was ~64. Thanks for the table btw, idk where you got the splits but it's good info :)
No one was ever fighting Colin for position, but the track being overcrowded is what caused them to go through 100/200 in 14/29. I don't think they'd have gone out faster than 63 if there had been 15 people in the race. You have to go out fast if you want a shot at placing well in a 30+ person field where everyone goes through the mile in under 4:30. If you want a shot at a record, you have to be out in front of all of the people going out fast.
Yeah that all makes more sense. Cutting the field in half definitely would have put everyone at more ease because then positioning early on is not nearly as critical.
As for the table, I got the splits from the race video. Not totally sure about the 100m split though because not all tracks have exactly 100m turns and 100m straights. Oxy for instance has really long turns and short straights if memory serves me. Could measure Arcadia's track on Google Earth, which is surprisingly extremely accurate when using their "ruler" tool, but didn't feel like it.
Craig Virgin at his HS best in 1973 would have been hard pressed to be third or fourth man on Newberry Park's team. That blows my mind away.
Let’s tap the brakes a bit. There’re factors like the spikes (possibly 2-5 seconds in a 2 mile), track surfaces, and the conditions.
Virgin’s senior year was insane:
That set the stage for Virgin’s glorious senior year in 1973, which included 11 sub-9:00s for 2M (plus 8:10 and 8:16 for 3k) – good for a record-setting 18 sub-9:00s for his career, a mark that still stands. Those were highlighted by a still-standing all-time Illinois record 8:42.6 at his state meet in 90-plus degree temps and his 8:40.9 on a sun-scorched track (94 degrees) at the International Prep Invite in Chicago that broke Steve Prefontaine’s national HS record.
To me, it looked like Leo was sprinting for a bit around 50m into the race trying to get into position. Given how hard it looked like he was running, and the fact that he ran that hard so early + the 60 first lap, he probably went just a bit too fast and it took too much energy.
LV's 8:29 had essentially perfect pacing, he got dragged on the back of a pro field that went through the mile in 4:14, and he had someone to draft off of late into the race. Like Sahlman, he ran sub-4 and was the XC national champ, so while 8:26ish is definitely within reason for Sahlman, it's gonna take way better conditions than a crowded track and a 60.8 first 400.
So what time would LV have run with the new shoes? With his stride, maybe 8:25?
With super spikes I would give LV 8:24 about 2 more seconds+ change per mile. I also would put GF at 8:28 with the same technology.
Has Newberry Park had any runner under nine for 2-miles? Nico Young was probably under nine enroute to running 13:50 for 5000 meters, but as far as I know they have yet to run a sub nine two mile on thee track, indoors or out.
Craig Virgin at his HS best in 1973 would have been hard pressed to be third or fourth man on Newberry Park's team. That blows my mind away.
Nah. One of the huge advantages NP has is that they have other elite talents to train with everyday at practice. Most schools only ever get one kid like this at a time, if ever. That's why having two sets of elite brothers puts them and Brosnan in an exceptionally rare position. Not taking anything away from them or Brosnan either, as they have capitalized on the opportunity.
Put Virgin on this team with all these guys to train with and odds are he's the #1 guy on the team or #2 just behind C. Sahlman.
How was it ever overcrowded from Colin's perspective, though? His brother Aaron pops out in front straight away as Colin follows. There is a bubble around Colin with nobody ever fighting him for position. Overcrowding was truly never a factor for Colin the entire race.
Your splits for Colin are off, as is your math because he was nowhere close to being four seconds faster than goal pace his first 100.
Let me help you all with the math and actual splits and then tell me if you really think pacing was a problem here. Apologies for the formatting of the "spreadsheet" below, but LR is run by absolute dinosaurs ffs.
Pacing was totally reasonable and over-crowding was a non-factor.
Dug up LV's splits from that 2 mile where he was pulled along by superior competition.
62.3, 62.9, 63.1, 63.9, 63.6, 65.1, 65.2, 60.7, and 2.4 secs for the last bit from 3200m to 2 mile. LV had someone to draft the first ~2500 meters before being in the wind for the final 700-720m.
Colin's first lap was .8 seconds faster than LVs.
Pretty clear Colin just needs better competition to run with to find out what he can really do.
Is faster competition worth more than much MUCH faster teammates or teammates in general lol and better technology?
Im always wondering how different eras would fare against each other
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The talent coming up behind these guys seems less compelling. Three of the four legs on their 4 X mile relay at Arcadia were sophs, and they seem to be in the 4:30-4:35 range for 1600. So beyond the Young Bros, A. Sahlman, Doshi, Martinez, Cantu and these sophs Brosnan better hope for a few talented frosh next year. Next year's boys' XC team will be in the national mix but not quite the monster team of this season. The following year Brosnan will probably not have any super runners.
Are you serious? That team could be better next year. Possibly a stronger 1-5 next year if improvement happens. It's not like Colin S. was 30s in front of their #2. Or Aaron Sahlman was 30s behind their #3. Doshi could run in the 1440s at Woodward Park next year. Why not? He went into last fall with a 9:27 3200 PR. Same for Hector Martinez. If things stay injury free...they will at least be stronger at #5 man. And I really don't give a damn if transfers do go there. Football players and Hoops players do it to make super teams. And if other coaches don't wanna up there game and post on Letsrun that Brosnan is insane with his workouts or whatever....let him take their kids and make them look like fools.
Newbury will NOT have a better team this coming season. Last season they had 4 in the top 10. But this will not be the case this year.
Are you serious? That team could be better next year. Possibly a stronger 1-5 next year if improvement happens. It's not like Colin S. was 30s in front of their #2. Or Aaron Sahlman was 30s behind their #3. Doshi could run in the 1440s at Woodward Park next year. Why not? He went into last fall with a 9:27 3200 PR. Same for Hector Martinez. If things stay injury free...they will at least be stronger at #5 man. And I really don't give a damn if transfers do go there. Football players and Hoops players do it to make super teams. And if other coaches don't wanna up there game and post on Letsrun that Brosnan is insane with his workouts or whatever....let him take their kids and make them look like fools.
Newbury will NOT have a better team this coming season. Last season they had 4 in the top 10. But this will not be the case this year.
Sean Brosnan was the glue that held them together. It just won't be the same.
Newbury will NOT have a better team this coming season. Last season they had 4 in the top 10. But this will not be the case this year.
Sean Brosnan was the glue that held them together. It just won't be the same.
Yeah this year will be their last title. In 2025 they may get their next but even then it might be difficult. West Ranch has 3 good freshmen coming in at least. If Adrian Cantu chooses West Ranch they might have an advantage
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