Natalie Cook - 15:25

Sydney massarelli flop hard bru

Bottom line is that Cook is the fastest high school runner in history. But we have to hear that she is young so she will burn out but then it switches to saying that she is old so it isn't great. Hardly any Tuohy thread doesn't gush that she beats everyone except a few older runners. Let's use that same logic here. Cook is the fastest high school runner in history. Let's be optimistic rather than pessimistic. We may be incorrect. So what? It really troubles me that so many like to some back and gloat when former high school girls get injured or have some type situation that limits their progression.

People said that about Koko when she was 16 then 17 then 18 then 19. She is now 25.

That is another interesting take. I don't see what you claim. What I do see is some seemed to say Cook was faster than every ncaa athlete and she was not. I don't think that is downplaying her performance (though some others are doing that in other ways).

After looking at outdoor TFRRS which is what she just ran, she is the faster than any college woman in any Division whether American or foreign born.

And if a certain WVU runner transfers to OSU...crikey.

The season just started. Also NCAA races are often tactical. The Stanford Invite race was much more of a time trial where the field was being paced along by pro runners. As a point of comparison Nichol's previous PR was 15:44.

Interesting wording...."She is the faster than any....." How about "She has now run a faster time than any college woman in any Division this season whether American or foreign born"? Of course the top finishers in the NCAA D1 Indoor 5K have not yet run a 5K yet outdoors (Wayment, Tuohy, Chelangat, Gregory, Magness, Chmiel, Mazza-Downie, Larkin, Hays, Covert) though I grant you probably not all of them can run 15:25.

Given how that race was executed I'd say most of the NCAA top 20 could. It was a picture perfect time trial. Nichols PR'd by 17 seconds. The only caveat is that NCAA runners are typically running ragged and do not have the luxury of training for record runs.

Maybe. Always nice to speculate except when it comes to somebody like Cook it seems. Looking at the PRs, of the 16 women who made the NCAA 5k, many improved 1 minute since high school. So it is reasonable to assume that Cook will drop at least 30 seconds in college.

We will wait and see.

Seriously guys I'm not getting on the hype train

I mean what am I going to do with all my brynn Brown 938 2 mi time trial memorabilia...

You guys said she was going to break every record and now I have all this memorabilia... And she hasn't run fast since... I mean are these coffee cups even good to drink out of... So I'm not going to get all hyped up!!!

Not sure why you are so intent on diminishing Cook's performance. Nichols was CU's top finisher at NCAA xc last year, finishing ahead of Camp, Heymach, Tuohy, Gergory among others.

I'm not saying Cook is as fast as all of those women, but 15:25 is 15:25. Maybe she will never run that fast again. But the record is in the books and there is no asterisk for pacing and weather.

I am throwing all of my Tuohy stuff away. I mistakenly predicted that she would be sub 15 by now. I realize that I way overestimated her ability. Now a high school girls runs faster than her after 2 years of college. I should have known that she would stagnate after high school. I am confused about Brown though. She has run 4:37-9:04 and was 6th at the ACC XC meet. I guess I wasn't as high on her as you because I didn't really expect those accomplishments

You must not have watched the same NCAA as me. I watched a bunch of guys run massive 5k PRs at paced meets at BU.

You have to be careful with complainING about time trialing, as all the NCAA is anymore is one big time trial, with exception of conference and Natty's. With the main goal of meets to be making a qualifying time for conference and regionals, everyone is looking for the right fast race with the right track, weather and competition to put up a fast time.

To your point that anyone can do it, well they all have the chance and they don't all do it.

Cook did it, she was indeed lucky to be in the perfect race, but she was smart enough to tuck into lane 1 behind the lead, assertive enough to take the lead when the pace slowed, and tough enough to finish strong off a hard pace to finish 3rd.

It's entertaining to talk about everyone who could have ran faster if they were there, Cain, Tuohy, Hutchins, the Dibaba sisters, but they weren't there. Cook was there, ran 5k in 15.25. If it was easy, they would all be doing it.

LOL. I remember that. During the Covid lockdowns. LR hyped it to the moon. Virtually the entire board was arguing with me that Brown's "time trial" was a legitimate record. My point was that she was a good 9:50s 3200 runner, but that the way that race was set up and the drafting and pacing taking place in the run resulted in a 10-15 second boost on what she was actually capable of in an actual race. I turned out to be right. The science of drafting and pacing is not that complicated.

I preface this again by saying 15:25 is a terrific time. But when I watched the race it was anticlimax. The amount of help Cook had was really substantial. She was in a peloton for the vast majority of the race and then when she very briefly surged ahead the pro runners immediately stepped in front of her and paced her to the line. It appeared that the pro runners were running specifically to help her break the record. It matters. Nichols for example PR'ed by 17 seconds. As record attempts go, the race could not have been more perfectly constructed. As good as the time was, when I watched the race it did not impress me as much as Hutchins run and certainly less than Tuohy's who ran with the maximum degree of difficulty possible. Given how the races were run, I would place this on par with Hutchins, with the time difference a function of how much help each runner received. Cook obviously trained very hard, and has in fact foregone a regular track season in an attempt to break records. If Hutchins ran this race my guess is she would run a similar time. I think 15 year old KT would have been capable too, but I have trouble seeing her being patient enough not to just say the hell with it and take off. When we compare the venues where the previous 5000 records were set, there were NB Nationals in a high school race, Virginia Beach in a high school race, and then the race Hutchins ran where she ended up running in the front the entire second half of the race. The Stanford Invite is a much better venue where the race was guaranteed to be paced for a record time and Cook would have a much better chance to be pulled along.

And on this point, age does matter. All the foregoing aside, a college age runner is going to have more stamina and better physical development than a high school runner. Like it or not, the fact that Cook is 19 (sorry 18 yrs, 11 months) and is the same age as a second semester college freshman is a legitimate part of evaluating the performance. Maybe I am wrong but it just seems a bit unsporting.

Still again, it is a very good time and shows potential for a strong NCAA career.

At BU. It is always a time trial bc it is the fastest venue and runners are looking for qualifying times.

I am going to take things like race conditions into account in trying to evaluate a record. It is just trying to be realistic. But correct, it is a record.