Actually, "singular they" has been in common usage since at least 1375 (according to the Oxford EnglishDictionary), and appears frequently in Shakespeare, Jane Austen, Dickens, and elsewhere.
Because it's usage has become politicized, you now have a bunch of people complaining that they're so confused and bewildered - even though they never previously blinked when they read sentences like "If someone calls while I'm out, tell them I'll call back tomorrow." The technical term for this sort of mock outrage is "pearl-clutching."
I love singular they just like any sensible person who hates saying "he or she" (or "she or he"?) instead. However, the context is just different here. The traditional use implies that you do not know who the subject is, so you cannot know their gender. See how convenient using singular they was in the previous sentence? But saying "Nikki Hiltz is having a great season, and they are the favorite to win today" sounds off, and is putting extra mental load on the speaker.
Really wish English did not have gendered pronouns, but that ship has sailed.
Canada is like a "Test Kitchen" for American Libs.
Two Human Rights Tribunals have ruled in favour of plaintiffs complaining others did not use preferred pronouns.
After summarizing two recent Human Rights Tribunal decisions that, for the first time, considered the issue of misgendering of gender non-conforming employees in the workplace as well as their employers' failure to address th...
Nicolas Meriwether launched a lawsuit after Shawnee State University in Ohio issued him a written warning for refusing to use a transgender student's preferred pronouns.
Why do "they" get to run with the"shes"? We Should have a men's race, a women's race and a "they's" race. Anyone who goes along with this nonsense is a clown.
This is what happens when you finally get a nonbinary division.
liverpoolrunner0004/30/2022 11:06am EDT4 years ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/sports/nonbinary-runners-races.htmlIn the midst of the oldest track meet in the United States, the paper of record's coverage of running is about... a man who won $10,000 in a marathon with...
Hey so does anyone have an opinion on Nikki Hiltz, her gender identity, and/or preferred pronouns? Too many posts in this thread focus on the sponsorship and running accomplishments so I was wondering if we could hash this out. Thanks.
Listen to this episode from The Queer Athlete Podcast on Spotify. Conversation with Nikki Hiltz, a trans nonbinary professional track athlete/lululemon global ambassador, about their coming out experience. (they/them)
Not sure if anyone caught this. Nikki Hiltz and their girlfriend Emma did an interview for the queer athlete podcast. I'm not posting this to be a troll, though some might think this. I am posting because managing participation in sport where categories are sexed does bring up legitimate questions when it comes to the inclusion vs. fairness debate so I have a couple follow up questions.
1. Nikki describes how coming out as non binary proved to be more challenging than coming out as gay because they didn't receive the "overwhelming support" that they had when they came out as gay. When they came out, they anticipated they would get that same support but 2021 was a politically charged time for trans and non binary athletes so they were met with resistance, including the argument: "how convenient that you wake up as a woman every day on race day and you'll never race the men?" The issue I have is that Nikki does not actually provide any counter to this argument. I want to know their answer to it because trans women competing alongside women is treated as a "life or death" situation for trans women. So how come it's so fast and loose with Nikki? Why should cis women concede fairness in sport to one group, while Nikki gets to happily pick and choose? What does Nikki actually mean by "some days I wake up feeling like a guy and one day I wake up feeling like a woman." I am not disputing that this is a real feeling or identity, but I just want more clarification here.
2. Nikki suggests that in races they are in, it might be better for commentators not to use pronouns at all, but rather just refer to people by their last names. I find that this would be asking way too much of commentators. It seems like a tough enough job as it is. I can't really understand why people who are doing their best can't be left alone to do it. I appreciated Nikki's other suggestion that a quick "sorry" for misgendering is helpful. Would we be able to just leave it at that then? I truly believe that shaming people for making an honest mistake helps no one.
The rest of the pod is interesting and I suggest listening with an open mind and not being an absolute jerk on here. I, like many of you, have huge reservations about trans women competing with cis women, but I also believe that trans women and nonbinary are fully and totally human. so I'm not trying to put them all on blast.
I, like many of you, have huge reservations about trans women competing with cis women, but I also believe that trans women and nonbinary are fully and totally human. so I'm not trying to put them all on blast.
I feel the same way, in the case of men transitioning to become women.
I consider myself a progressive, but that's insane to me and should not be allowed. No, just create a separate division, like some of the major marathons do.
Now, how prize money is determined in instances like that is up to the race organizers.
In Nikki Hiltz's case: Nikki Hiltz was born female, correct? So identifying as transgender and non-binary is really much ado about nothing to me. If that's what Nikki Hiltz wants to do, fine by me. Live and let live.
I imagine professionally though (as a professional runner) Nikki Hiltz identifies as female, correct? Because how else do they compete in the women events?
So professionally female, and personally (and privately) trans non-binary? That's about how it works for Nikki Hiltz?
(I just happened to get sucked into the YouTube rabbit hole yesterday and stumbled upon the latest video on Nikki Hiltz's YouTube channel about the race in Hawaii this past December. So Nikki Hiltz was kind of top of mind for some reason.)
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Promoting Excellence in Running, Integrity of Character, Clarity of Mind, Sublime Humor.
I think that Nikki finds themselves in a catch 22. Because there's no logical argument support trans women competing with cis women in sports, while also supporting themselves competing with cis women.
Nikki does not identify as a woman, nor do they identify as female. They discussed taking HRT and testosterone as well as having top surgery after their career is over.
But Nikki does not take any issue whatsoever with competing alongside cis women. They have never advocated for a separate category to be more inclusive of non binary people. They have never insisted on racing men. And the question remains: why is that? If gender identity is this monumental, why then, is Nikki fine with standing side by side racing and training with women?
The answer, (I believe) is that despite being nonbinary, Nikki was assigned female at birth--and I say that not believing that an assignment of female is arbitrary. Nikki has a "female" body and so it makes sense to them to race others with the same body. But if they were to state this, then they would be in direct opposition to trans women competing alongside cis women.
I don't have any issues with Nikki competing against women. What I have issue with is their continued advocating for cis women to give up their spaces and rights and the fairness of sport.
Nikki does not identify as a woman, nor do they identify as female. They discussed taking HRT and testosterone as well as having top surgery after their career is over.
…
The answer, (I believe) is that despite being nonbinary, Nikki was assigned female at birth--
I watched a Sweat Elite video in which a female 5k runner was performing some reps, directed by Coach Smith, in Flagstaff. The subject of this thread was in the video, and I could not help but think, “that gal is jacked!”
So it is my understanding this person is actually a female assigned at birth; not a transgender, but a ‘gender fluid’ mind flux, correct? Not saying this is actually true for this person specifically, but does a person in that state of mind get a pass to use HRT, steroids, testosterone, with or without a TUE, and athletics is going to buy-in to that??
When they came out, they anticipated they would get that same support but 2021 was a politically charged time for trans and non binary athletes so they were met with resistance, including the argument: "how convenient that you wake up as a woman every day on race day and you'll never race the men?" The issue I have is that Nikki does not actually provide any counter to this argument. I
That’s not an argument to counter. It’s a pathetic attempt at some kind of “gotcha” that haters parrot.
When they came out, they anticipated they would get that same support but 2021 was a politically charged time for trans and non binary athletes so they were met with resistance, including the argument: "how convenient that you wake up as a woman every day on race day and you'll never race the men?" The issue I have is that Nikki does not actually provide any counter to this argument. I
That’s not an argument to counter. It’s a pathetic attempt at some kind of “gotcha” that haters parrot.
Why? what's the "gotcha"? Why is this argument simply an attempt? What's so ridiculous about it?
Nikki does not identify as a woman, nor do they identify as female. They discussed taking HRT and testosterone as well as having top surgery after their career is over.
…
The answer, (I believe) is that despite being nonbinary, Nikki was assigned female at birth--
I watched a Sweat Elite video in which a female 5k runner was performing some reps, directed by Coach Smith, in Flagstaff. The subject of this thread was in the video, and I could not help but think, “that gal is jacked!”
So it is my understanding this person is actually a female assigned at birth; not a transgender, but a ‘gender fluid’ mind flux, correct? Not saying this is actually true for this person specifically, but does a person in that state of mind get a pass to use HRT, steroids, testosterone, with or without a TUE, and athletics is going to buy-in to that??
Nikki stated in the pod that they aren't using testosterone nor can they under any circumstances while competing as an athlete.
Nikki does not identify as a woman, nor do they identify as female. They discussed taking HRT and testosterone as well as having top surgery after their career is over.
…
The answer, (I believe) is that despite being nonbinary, Nikki was assigned female at birth--
I watched a Sweat Elite video in which a female 5k runner was performing some reps, directed by Coach Smith, in Flagstaff. The subject of this thread was in the video, and I could not help but think, “that gal is jacked!”
So it is my understanding this person is actually a female assigned at birth; not a transgender, but a ‘gender fluid’ mind flux, correct? Not saying this is actually true for this person specifically, but does a person in that state of mind get a pass to use HRT, steroids, testosterone, with or without a TUE, and athletics is going to buy-in to that??
Elly Henes is in her first year of her professional running career. Elly was a 10x All American at NC State and after winning the D1 NCAA 5k last June, Elly ...
I watched a Sweat Elite video in which a female 5k runner was performing some reps, directed by Coach Smith, in Flagstaff. The subject of this thread was in the video, and I could not help but think, “that gal is jacked!”
So it is my understanding this person is actually a female assigned at birth; not a transgender, but a ‘gender fluid’ mind flux, correct? Not saying this is actually true for this person specifically, but does a person in that state of mind get a pass to use HRT, steroids, testosterone, with or without a TUE, and athletics is going to buy-in to that??
Why? what's the "gotcha"? Why is this argument simply an attempt? What's so ridiculous about it?
You said yourself that you erroneously think Nikki is caught in a Catch 22.
Correct and I do--which means I think that Nikki competing with women without complaint is actually helping the argument that it isn't fair for trans women to compete alongside cis women. Because clearly it isn't life or death to compete alongside one's gender identity. Nikki regularly does not compete against people who share their gender identity and is perfectly fine with it.
That’s not an argument to counter. It’s a pathetic attempt at some kind of “gotcha” that haters parrot.
Why? what's the "gotcha"? Why is this argument simply an attempt? What's so ridiculous about it?
Yep. A typical "don't agree with someone" and you are a hater post.
Only shallow unintelligent posters use that word when *they* can't get someone to agree with them. A childish response at best. Try again with intelligence.
