Lindgren is so far above everyone else its not a joke. 8:40 2 mile on a 120 yard indoor track in his day + 13:40 cinder track + 4:04 as a jog fest. Nobody touched this guy unless it was on a WORLDWIDE stage.
Ritz, Vezbicas probably grab a spot up there with Rupp, Fernandez, Chapa, etc in the mix too. Unless Sahlaman has a monster outdoor season (Multiple High School records), he won't be in contention with these guys. A high schoo er would have to run 13:1X or 8:1x to be even comparable to Lindgren.
So Lindgren was slower than Sahlman but was still better? The 8:33.32 1600 Sahlman ran is equivalent to an 8:36.3 2 mile, 4 seconds faster and he was 6 seconds faster in the mile. And he is just starting his outdoor season. Watch as more national records fall. If he runs a 2 mile, that record will be gone. 3200 record he just crushed likely to go lower.
It is a joke to suggest you have to run 20 seconds faster than Lindgren to be as good as him. The record books do not have asterisks indicating one had super shoes or a faster track.
Running faster does not mean better. Is Rudy Chapa a better runner than Zátopek because he has faster times? Is Webb’s high school mile better than Ryun’s?
So Lindgren was slower than Sahlman but was still better? The 8:33.32 1600 Sahlman ran is equivalent to an 8:36.3 2 mile, 4 seconds faster and he was 6 seconds faster in the mile. And he is just starting his outdoor season. Watch as more national records fall. If he runs a 2 mile, that record will be gone. 3200 record he just crushed likely to go lower.
It is a joke to suggest you have to run 20 seconds faster than Lindgren to be as good as him. The record books do not have asterisks indicating one had super shoes or a faster track.
Running faster does not mean better. Is Rudy Chapa a better runner than Zátopek because he has faster times? Is Webb’s high school mile better than Ryun’s?
The answer to both is no.
I guess we have to consult you from now on to know who is better since running faster does not matter. Maybe you should start a consulting service to judge who is better.
So Lindgren was slower than Sahlman but was still better? The 8:33.32 1600 Sahlman ran is equivalent to an 8:36.3 2 mile, 4 seconds faster and he was 6 seconds faster in the mile. And he is just starting his outdoor season. Watch as more national records fall. If he runs a 2 mile, that record will be gone. 3200 record he just crushed likely to go lower.
It is a joke to suggest you have to run 20 seconds faster than Lindgren to be as good as him. The record books do not have asterisks indicating one had super shoes or a faster track.
Running faster does not mean better. Is Rudy Chapa a better runner than Zátopek because he has faster times? Is Webb’s high school mile better than Ryun’s?
The answer to both is no.
Was Bekele the greatest distance runner in history because he ran the fastest times? Yes!!!
Running faster does not mean better. Is Rudy Chapa a better runner than Zátopek because he has faster times? Is Webb’s high school mile better than Ryun’s?
The answer to both is no.
Was Bekele the greatest distance runner in history because he ran the fastest times? Yes!!!
Records are an important part of the equation (which is why Mo Farah will never be the GOAT), but context matters more. Joshua Cheptegei now has the world records at 5K and 10K, thanks to super shoes and wave light pacing tech. Does running slightly faster automatically mean that Cheptegei is better than Bekele? Absolutely not!
Running faster does not mean better. Is Rudy Chapa a better runner than Zátopek because he has faster times? Is Webb’s high school mile better than Ryun’s?
The answer to both is no.
Was Bekele the greatest distance runner in history because he ran the fastest times? Yes!!!
So what you mean to say is that Bekele WAS the goat….
So what you mean to say is that Bekele WAS the goat….
Still is. Bekele punished Cheptegei almost every time they raced. And only 1 second slower in the marathon.
You are cracking me up. You just emphatically stated the greatest is the one with the fastest times, and now you are hedging and qualifying your statement🤣
I’ll stick with Ryun as the greatest HS distance runner ever and Bekele as the goat distance runner, but it’s NOT just about the times.
To all of you arguing about the surface "but this guy ran in grass but this guy ran on a cinder track"
Nico Young set the NXN course record RUNNING IN THE MUD. Throw some respect on the current HS natty GOAT.
Love Nico. He’s amazing and it was a pleasure to see him run in person many times during HS in CA. I realize the current NP boys are amazing too, but you almost become numb to it. They are just to good. It all looks so routine and there are so many of them and no drama. Another TT, another mind boggling set of times. Ho hum….
Still is. Bekele punished Cheptegei almost every time they raced. And only 1 second slower in the marathon.
You are cracking me up. You just emphatically stated the greatest is the one with the fastest times, and now you are hedging and qualifying your statement🤣
I’ll stick with Ryun as the greatest HS distance runner ever and Bekele as the goat distance runner, but it’s NOT just about the times.
No I did not. I just stated that Sahlman had some times faster than Lindgren. And questioned that one had to go 20 seconds faster to be better than Lindgren. And pointed out that record books have no asterisks for better shoes or tracks.
To all of you arguing about the surface "but this guy ran in grass but this guy ran on a cinder track"
Nico Young set the NXN course record RUNNING IN THE MUD. Throw some respect on the current HS natty GOAT.
Love Nico. He’s amazing and it was a pleasure to see him run in person many times during HS in CA. I realize the current NP boys are amazing too, but you almost become numb to it. They are just to good. It all looks so routine and there are so many of them and no drama. Another TT, another mind boggling set of times. Ho hum….
So what you mean to say is that Bekele WAS the goat….
Still is. Bekele punished Cheptegei almost every time they raced. And only 1 second slower in the marathon.
But you previously said the fastest is the GOAT, so Cheptegei must now be the greatest all-time 5,000m/10,000m guy, right? And you do know that Chetegei and Kipchoge are different people? Kipchoge being the marathon WR holder.
I fully expect Sahlman to have a season that puts him in discussion of the Mount Rushmore of HS distance runners, but comparing times alone doesn't tell the entire story and I hope someday you'll understand this.
Still is. Bekele punished Cheptegei almost every time they raced. And only 1 second slower in the marathon.
But you previously said the fastest is the GOAT, so Cheptegei must now be the greatest all-time 5,000m/10,000m guy, right? And you do know that Chetegei and Kipchoge are different people? Kipchoge being the marathon WR holder.
I fully expect Sahlman to have a season that puts him in discussion of the Mount Rushmore of HS distance runners, but comparing times alone doesn't tell the entire story and I hope someday you'll understand this.
Not sure the Bekele v Cheptegei debate corresponds well to the HS goat debate. Bekele faced similar competition during his career compared to Cheptegei if you look at his competitors prs (Tadese, Sihine, Kipchoge, El Guerrouj, and the tail end of Gebrselassie's career). Therefore the dominance compared to his competitors weighs more heavily. Ryun faced significantly softer competition than people do now due to various factors (which mainly boil down to more money in the sport now) so you have to look at it in a different way.
Ryun for sure. Webb for sure. Sahlman's times are crazy but he needs some big wins. What Verbicas did at the time was unheard of. Ritz ran 12:56 and beat Hall and Webb like people mentioned.
Galen Rupp ended up having a better career than pretty much everyone on this list, so let's not get carried away about high school
Galen rupp is not in the h.s. top 10. Which is fine. He didn't even win footlocker. His track prs are great, and were in time trial setup races so we basically know what his limit was at the time. Grant Fisher also is not top 10, he might be in the 10-20 range though.
There's not enough love here for Craig virgin. Look up the threads on him his accomplishments are amazing. He raced extremely fast, extremely often.
Craig virgin who ran 8:40.9 in 94 degree weather! That's better than Grant could have done.
Sahlman still had probably 4 full months of HS running (and yes I count the summer after graduation as HS running as everyone should), so let's put a pin in his discussion at this point because there is so much to be done on his part. A few other thoughts below.
- Some people were listing steeple and 10k times for HS kids. Yes those are records but they are so rarely run it is almost impossible to have them be worth anything in an all time ranking situation. Lindgren being competitive internationally is the exception here since that is competition instead of times.
- while fernandez times were incredible in track, if you are factoring in xc it has to be mentioned that he was 3rd at FL that year behind Mike fout and Chris derrick (who was just as young for his grade as fernandez fwiw).
- Kessler probably had the potential to be in conversation for track GOAT, but (fairly) focused solely on 1500 to try and make Olympics at the expense of PR chasing in other events.
- Guys like Lukas deserve credit for not just taking a few big shots a year, but lining up often and getting after it every time.
- Everyone rightly talks about Lindgren and Ryun competing on the senior international stage as HS kids, but had Webb tried for worlds in 01 (I believe he shut it down to prep for Michigan) he would have had a good chance to make the team.
Umm .. Webb ran USATF 1500m in 3:38.50 and finished in 5th place.
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