The issue is quite simple. When professional runners are happy to hang out with a convicted doper - who has thereby cheated them as well as other athletes - then there will be cheaters in their ranks, too.
The issue is quite simple. When professional runners are happy to hang out with a convicted doper - who has thereby cheated them as well as other athletes - then there will be cheaters in their ranks, too.
So the owners if this site don't care about doping. Can't say I'm surprised, they are both pieces of crap.
Armstronglivs wrote:
The issue is quite simple. When professional runners are happy to hang out with a convicted doper - who has thereby cheated them as well as other athletes - then there will be cheaters in their ranks, too.
When the news of this originally came out, I gave my opinions on which members of the women's BTC team I thought were doping. Curiously, Schweizer is the only one remaining that I didn't think was, but now I really have my doubts about her. Hall, Infeld, Quigley, and Johnson are all gone, and I respect them for no longer being associated with that shady program.
Renewed Marathoner wrote:
Rojo I don't disagree with everything you said.
But let's be real. If this was Galen rupp you'd feel differently.
If it was Rupp, your damn right I would feel differently - and for good reasons. I'd have a lot less reasons to doubt there was a chance a mistake was made. Remember, there have been allegations against Salazar since before this website was founded. There were Nike documents showing Rupp to be on testosterone medication in HS. Salazar has admitted he took testosterone during his own career, was known to travel with testosterone when he was coaching , and also known to give the masseuse the night off.
Lowest Common Dominator wrote:
We’re just having a conversation, Rojo. Just like runners do when they are with their buddies on a Sunday morning.
Seriously, if Salazar was spotted roaming the parking lot next to the track where Rupp was training or just casually encountering Hasay at a Beaverton Starbucks five days a week and having a 45 minute conversation about running, you would be working furiously to confirm and break the story. You would even black page it with a huge headline to celebrate that you caught him.
What are you talking about? A guy hired a PI to investigate Rupp/Salazar to see if they were still workign together. He wanted us to make a big deal that Rupp would use a house that Salazar owned to train with. We didn't make a big deal of it. We told him he we didn't think it was a big deal. We did exactly the opposite of what you said we'd do.
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2021/07/someone-hired-a-private-investigator-to-see-if-alberto-salazar-was-still-coaching-galen-rupp-here-is-what-they-found/svoinwe wrote:
you know part of why I got into this site back in 2002 was because it was the only place where it seemed like drugs were being taken seriously, and y'all were speaking serious truth to power.
You did it with R*g*na J*c*bs and you even did it with Lance when everyone was licking out of the palm of his hand. Even with allegations, you've always taken a measured approach. You allow it because it's important to keep the sport clean, for athletes to know that fans and clean athletes have two eyes in their heads.
But then Shelby gets popped and all of a sudden that's out the door.
Sanctimonious???? Seriously? She's a drug cheat. There is zero evidence to prove otherwise, and all the evidence to prove she's guilty. Now she's lying to everyone and trying to grift money. It's gross!
I used to like Shelby too. I used to root for her too. But it's so painfully clear she cheated, that she ingested the nandrolone on purpose, that it was probably a part of another supplement and she was probably doing it for years.
She's lying to everyone. Still. She won't come clean. Still. BTC made a circus of the Olympic trials blah blah blahing on national tv and the press conferences over the "injustice". What injustice? "If you look the factssss" they all whined. What facts are in her favor? None. They made the Olympic trials all about her. It was gross, privileged and entitled. The system did not fail her.
Shelby training with BTC is disrespecting the sport. BTC agreeing to train with her is also disrespecting the sport. Sorry that we are sanctimonious now that we don't want drug cheats hanging around. Guess that's the new standard here at lets run dot com
I'm glad you liked us as we were the only ones with our heads not in teh sand. I mean it was so obvious to me though that Regina and Lance were dopers. This - a little different. Im very well open to her being a doper, but I truly believe her teammates and coaches believe she is innocent.
I also don't understand the science enough. One of the studies involved in nailing shelby had 4 people in it, right? Really?
I've also been troubled by the fact that Jarrion Lawson/Ajee Wilson both recently got off after testing positive. Not that it was necessarily the wrong decision but that that taught me this whole thing is very scary. If Travis Tygart - the man who was obsessed with bringing lance and alberto down - says we have a problem with the rules/testing, then we have a problem with the rules/testing.
I'll admit i'm naturally a contrarian. Since Wilson and Lawson tested positive, do I think it's much more likely that they doped than the average person who never was in that situation? Yes. Does that mean they did it? Absolutely not. Same thing with Lagat.
But I like intellectual consistency. This may be totally different due to the substances. Again, I don't really know.
I think Weldon is currently trying to pay a Shelby skeptic like Russ Tucker to write an article on the whole matter. We want to know more about the science but would like it from someone like him who is a bit skeptical of it.
We also are hoping to have Jerry on the podcast.
You think every athlete is guilty but you also think every criminal is innocent. What an odd perspective.
Rojo, to be fair, I think Wilson, Lawson, and Lagat all should have been banned for their positive tests. These test results really are not intended to leave much ambiguity, and the "tainted meat" excuse is complete BS.
casual obsever wrote:
I don't know what astro thinks. But I do know that 43.6% admitted to doping at the global championship level.
For example, 45 ladies made it to the start of the three rounds over 1500 m in the last Olympics.
Statistically that included 20 dopers and 25 clean athletes.
13 made it into the final. So some dopers didn't. Could a clean runner have made it so far? Possibly.
Could a clean runner have been top-3, beating 18 of the most talented dopers worldwide? Highly unlikely (unless doping doesn't help).
I disagree.
In fact, when it comes to distance events, I believe it to be very possible for clean athletes to compete for spots in a final or a medal at an Olympic Games and/or a World Championships along side of doping athletes due to the high level testing, storing of samples, and retesting of samples longer term at these events. Doping athletes, their coaches, and at times agents know such. Look at the times of distance events going as far back as Rio, maybe even London. Sure there were highly suspect athletes in distance finals but their times weren’t record breaking.
Between these events is when unbelievable times happen and world records are broken due to weaker testing.
I would like to see her go after some FKTs. Rim to rim to rim, JMT or maybe try and beat the CR at western states?
Or shorter distance wise the women’s vertical kilometer record is 34’01. Could she go sub 33?
Armstronglivs wrote:
The issue is quite simple. When professional runners are happy to hang out with a convicted doper - who has thereby cheated them as well as other athletes - then there will be cheaters in their ranks, too.
The issue is simple.
Armstronglivs refuses to read the rules and his opinions are as worthless as the racist taunts and insults he favours as his normal bigoted outbursts.
Await vile insults and death threats to be added to his gross simplification of doping issues.
FlagstaffBoi wrote:
Reading the rules, it says a banned athlete can't use facilities or resources of member federations or affiliated clubs.
So it would seem she couldn't be coached by Jerry, as that would be receiving a benefit from the club.
*but* what's to stop her from dropping a couple hundred bucks a month or whatever to Jerry and saying "give me your best coaching plan for 5k/k runners." The AIU comes calling she's just paying for private coaching which isn't forbidden in the code.
Tbh my biggest take away from this saga is that the rules on banned athletes are not clear or well thought out at all. Again, what does "practice" mean? Is an easy run practice? If she bumps into other pro runners (non BTC) and runs with them what ramifications does that have?
From her gofundme it seems Shelby spent a ton on legal fees, so I imagine if she has half a brain cell she asked for guidance on what she could do while banned. But still, it's kinda unfair the rules are clear as mud on details of actual training, from a fan POV.
I read that not all are registered with usatf .
I may have got such wrong but can someone clarify please.
There may well some other angles that apply to SH and training.
Also the rules are world rules for all sports so there is bound to be ambiguity on what is mean by training/ practice/ and various settings.
Please read the thread, someone already posted that you can't use facilties while suspended, that includes coaching.
You were harsh in the Farah and Aden case, but now you are moving in the opposite direction. Imo, if it's all correct, doing exactly the same program as your teammates, in the same location, half an hour apart, that's as suspicious Farah being on a track in Spain and not in France.
everyone's dad wrote:
You think every athlete is guilty but you also think every criminal is innocent. What an odd perspective.
Yours is the odd perspective. I think nothing of the kind. I think athletes with doping violations are dopers, while many others are likely to dope. Who are the criminals I think are innocent? (I also recall thinking the McMichaels murdered Arbery).
Book em Danno wrote:
casual obsever wrote:
I don't know what astro thinks. But I do know that 43.6% admitted to doping at the global championship level.
For example, 45 ladies made it to the start of the three rounds over 1500 m in the last Olympics.
Statistically that included 20 dopers and 25 clean athletes.
13 made it into the final. So some dopers didn't. Could a clean runner have made it so far? Possibly.
Could a clean runner have been top-3, beating 18 of the most talented dopers worldwide? Highly unlikely (unless doping doesn't help).
I disagree.
In fact, when it comes to distance events, I believe it to be very possible for clean athletes to compete for spots in a final or a medal at an Olympic Games and/or a World Championships along side of doping athletes due to the high level testing, storing of samples, and retesting of samples longer term at these events. Doping athletes, their coaches, and at times agents know such. Look at the times of distance events going as far back as Rio, maybe even London. Sure there were highly suspect athletes in distance finals but their times weren’t record breaking.
Between these events is when unbelievable times happen and world records are broken due to weaker testing.
Most athletes don't dope in competition. They dope out of competition while training, with a lesser likelihood of testing ( in some countries more than others). The benefits are there when they compete.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Book em Danno wrote:
I disagree.
In fact, when it comes to distance events, I believe it to be very possible for clean athletes to compete for spots in a final or a medal at an Olympic Games and/or a World Championships along side of doping athletes due to the high level testing, storing of samples, and retesting of samples longer term at these events. Doping athletes, their coaches, and at times agents know such. Look at the times of distance events going as far back as Rio, maybe even London. Sure there were highly suspect athletes in distance finals but their times weren’t record breaking.
Between these events is when unbelievable times happen and world records are broken due to weaker testing.
Most athletes don't dope in competition. They dope out of competition while training, with a lesser likelihood of testing ( in some countries more than others). The benefits are there when they compete.
Well I never realised that.Who would have thought that?
Armstronglivs wrote:
everyone's dad wrote:
You think every athlete is guilty but you also think every criminal is innocent. What an odd perspective.
Yours is the odd perspective. I think nothing of the kind. I think athletes with doping violations are dopers, while many others are likely to dope. Who are the criminals I think are innocent? (I also recall thinking the McMichaels murdered Arbery).
You think you are innocent of hate crimes.
original liar soorer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The issue is quite simple. When professional runners are happy to hang out with a convicted doper - who has thereby cheated them as well as other athletes - then there will be cheaters in their ranks, too.
The issue is simple.
Armstronglivs refuses to read the rules and his opinions are as worthless as the racist taunts and insults he favours as his normal bigoted outbursts.
Await vile insults and death threats to be added to his gross simplification of doping issues.
Monkeys typing.
Armstronglivs wrote:
original liar soorer wrote:
The issue is simple.
Armstronglivs refuses to read the rules and his opinions are as worthless as the racist taunts and insults he favours as his normal bigoted outbursts.
Await vile insults and death threats to be added to his gross simplification of doping issues.
Monkeys typing.
Racial taunts.
original liar soorer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Monkeys typing.
Racial taunts.
What race are monkeys? But they can type, as we see.
Try monkey taunts at a soccer game and you would be arrested for hate crimes.
I await you to have ago at BLM again.
Can anyone pull up the thread about Alberto Salazar supposedly being spotted at the host hotel in Atlanta before/during the Marathon Trials? I looked for it last night but couldn’t find it. I’m curious as to what the replies/responses were to him allegedly (he wasn’t) being there when he was banned.