Cole Hocker probably will just be another Andrew Wheating

indoorszn wrote:

Centro winning the Olympics wasn’t even honestly convincing of him being truly great.

I still suspect that race was fixed, or at least set up to give him a good chance.

At the time, we didn't "know" Kiprop was doping, but since he's been caught, I think the likelihood increases that he was forced to take a dive.

starting at 2:08, look how Kiprop easily moves up to Centro's shoulder at 700m, as his teammate was tripped. He was running easily there, so why did he give up the position immediately and fade back to be boxed in traffic?

The official story was hamstring injury. But if so, where did he get that turn of speed on the last lap to elbow his way back to Centro's shoulder with 100m to go? Then he just fades away, unconvincingly to me, passed by a whole mess of guys he would normally mop the floor with at that point.

Some of you people just have impossibly high standards. You talk sh!t about a kid that placed 6th in an Olympic final, when you yourself need NEXT%'s to snag a 70% age-graded performance at a local 10k.

Maybe if he runs more distance in the fall for a good base.

TheSummerSoldier wrote:

The day Hocker runs down Jacob in a Diamond League race, I will shut up and eat my words.

He would have ran down Jakob, Tim, and Josh in Tokyo if only he had been a little closer at the bell.

American Fake Tans wrote:

TheSummerSoldier wrote:

The day Hocker runs down Jacob in a Diamond League race, I will shut up and eat my words.

He would have ran down Jakob, Tim, and Josh in Tokyo if only he had been a little closer at the bell.

If only Jakob, Tim, and Josh would just slow down for poor little Cole to let him catch up

We know Hocker’s close is special because he closed his last 800 at NCAA’s in 1:48 with a 52 second last lap in a 3:35 race. I have not seen Jakob do anything like that. I believe Hocker can beat Jakob in a diamond league that doesn’t focus on time. But the chances of Jakob meeting with Cole in a lowkey Diamond league race are low. They will probably race each other in Monnaco, Pre, Worlds championships, and the diamond league final if I were to guess.

pepedeme wrote:

We know Hocker’s close is special because he closed his last 800 at NCAA’s in 1:48 with a 52 second last lap in a 3:35 race. I have not seen Jakob do anything like that. I believe Hocker can beat Jakob in a diamond league that doesn’t focus on time. But the chances of Jakob meeting with Cole in a lowkey Diamond league race are low. They will probably race each other in Monnaco, Pre, Worlds championships, and the diamond league final if I were to guess.

Why would Jakob have to do anything like that?

pepedeme wrote:

We know Hocker’s close is special because he closed his last 800 at NCAA’s in 1:48 with a 52 second last lap in a 3:35 race. I have not seen Jakob do anything like that. I believe Hocker can beat Jakob in a diamond league that doesn’t focus on time. But the chances of Jakob meeting with Cole in a lowkey Diamond league race are low. They will probably race each other in Monnaco, Pre, Worlds championships, and the diamond league final if I were to guess.

Wrong. Hockers close is not special. If he ran at a sub 3:30 pace from the gun he'd have a kick worse than all the medal contenders. Only reason his kick seems good is because, in true american fashion, he hobbyjogs half the race in order to deliver a flashy finish. That's the only kind of distance runner we seem to be able to produce.

TheSummerSoldier wrote:

A lot of hype is on Hocker and Kessler right now. The only guy to deliver records and medals in the past five years on the world stage in middle distance is Donovan Brazier. I'm leaving out Centro since I believe he's a bit past his prime so not putting him up in the conversation. Anyway, I will believe in Hocker when I see it. Right now he hasn't run a race to me that announces him as truly great. I hope he proves me wrong but I'm not seeing it yet.

That's a pretty delusional take. Wheating was quick and had potential to go a lot faster, but in my opinion he wasted his best professional years focusing on the 800 when he should've focused on the 1500. He made one Olympic team in a shallow American field. Hocker has run blazing fast world class times, and he's done it with incredible consistency and one of the greatest kicks of any distance runner in history. He's a generational talent to rival Jakob, and his splits from his 3:31 at the Olympics suggest he may already be in shape to take down the American record at that event. He's absolutely a legend in the making, and suggesting that he hasn't yet done anything to prove that is completely ridiculous.

I love when guys with 17:30 5K PRs write posts like this.

American Fake Tans wrote:

TheSummerSoldier wrote:

The day Hocker runs down Jacob in a Diamond League race, I will shut up and eat my words.

He would have ran down Jakob, Tim, and Josh in Tokyo if only he had been a little closer at the bell.

I can't wait. Hopefully Stewart McSweyn knows he will never earn a W.C. or Olympic medal, 1500m. Hopefully S. McSweyn will race 5000m at World Championships. Jakob Ingebrigtsen, Timothy Cheruiyot will at W.C. allow the pace to split 800m, 2 plus and split 1200m 3 plus. Cole Hocker cannot beat them.

pepedeme wrote:

We know Hocker’s close is special because he closed his last 800 at NCAA’s in 1:48 with a 52 second last lap in a 3:35 race. I have not seen Jakob do anything like that. I believe Hocker can beat Jakob in a diamond league that doesn’t focus on time. But the chances of Jakob meeting with Cole in a lowkey Diamond league race are low. They will probably race each other in Monnaco, Pre, Worlds championships, and the diamond league final if I were to guess.

You do know that Jakob closed the last 200 of the Olympic final faster than Hocker? And both Jakob and Kerr were faster over the last lap. He's on the pro scene now where his kick is still good but not spectacular. Let's keep in mind that he only just ran down an ageing and out of shape Centro at the trials. He's got a long way to go before he's been in the very top tier of 1500 runners. His competition right now is people like McSweyn, Wightman, and Heywood.

People are dumb. If only a handful of runners in history are great, only handful of people are smart. So everyone else is therefore, not smart.

You have to get a kick out of these guys like "TheSummerSoldier" or Sunshine Patriots or whoever cowardly they are, hiding behind their screens...As if the world needs his or their approval to be deemed "truly great" as an Olympic finalist, NCAA Champion!!!

Andrew wheating never ran 7:46 or 13:18 bro.... Cole is a lot more strength based

Also, Hocker didnt even actually run down Centro. We don't know if he actually could have outkicked Centro on that day because while Hocker was busting a gut and running like a girl to win a race that hardly mattered to Centro, Centro was just cruising knowing that he had already made the team and that's all he needed to do on that day.

To Centro, as the then reigning olympic champ, it didnt make a difference if he got 1st or 2nd, nothing he can do at trials will net him a more lucrative deal than being the defending champ.

But for Hocker, who at the time was not pro, there is a big incentive to get a win over the defending champ bc it could heavily influence his value on the market.

TheSummerSoldier wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

Truly great requires at least an AR and a WC or Olympic medal. Right now, Mu is truly great. Hocker has potential, but not yet.

This answer is correct.

I agree.... This is all speculation. He has great potential, possibly the most any young male American runner right now, but it's too early to start anointing greatness. May be 2023 the hype will be warranted.

It's the same with Connor Mantz. People are trying to make more of him than he presently is. He's won some NCAA titles, but he has yet to beat really fast people, in any kind of race rabbited, time trial, tactical or otherwise. Beating semi-retired Sam Chelanga at the USATF half doesn't count.

Hocker is in a different league to Mantz. At 24, with mediocre 5k and 10k PRs (I obviously mean in international terms, I know he'd kick my ass all over the track), he'll do well to place top 10 at a global champs. Hocker has medal potential, Mantz will need extraordinary luck to win a global medal.