Colds don't land kids in the ICU.
Again, those kids are not in ICU because of omicron. They are in there for other reasons.
This is dishonest fear mongering
Even Fauci admitted this. Don't know why he did
Liberals are morons.. wrote:
LevelHeadedReasoning wrote:
EpiRunner,
Thank you for your persistent level headed reasoning. Unfortunately, you have only proven yourself correct that no amount of facts, logic, reason, and even compassion will change the minds of those who disagree with you. Their arguments are strawman and conjecture, but they are absolutely convinced they are right.
Taking a position on incomplete information is the definition of conjecture.... Anyone who says anything other than "I don't know" regarding things the science isn't settled on is using conjecture...
When Robert Malone is deleted off YouTube and Twitter for his opinions you know the debate is 100% political and has absolutely nothing to do with science.
No one has said that they have all the answers. You have to make the best decisions you can given the information you have available at any given time. If the most recent studies say one thing, you make your decisions based on that. That's why most statements will be, "clinical trials show..." or "based on the most recent data..."
By your logic we should just throw our hands up and do nothing because we'll never be 100% sure.
GettingFasterDude wrote:
There are many powerful people for who COVID-hysteria has become a money and power generating industry. COVID is real. It's a serious thing. I'm not denying its existence, importance, or need for treatment/prevention/vaccination.
But make no mistake about it, COVID-hysteria has become a lucrative industry some very powerful people have a vested interest in preserving.
The federal budget in 2020 was $4.7 trillion after the Trump tax cuts to corporations, up from $4.3 trillion. Trump did have record jobs, wages, investment numbers that would have offset some of this. Trump and Biden spent $5.6, yes more than the entire federal budget, on Covid relief, yet those people who lost income, jobs, homes, businesses were never made whole. Where did the money go? At least $100 billion was lost to fraud. There’s no real accountability. The federal budget for 2021, excluding emergency funding (remember the Iraq War accounting?) was $6.8 trillion. This additional spending has nothing to do with public health or growing the economy or helping blacks. It’s money laundering by the Democratic Party with no accountability or oversight. If the democrats were serious about taxing the rich, they would have done that before introducing the $2 trillion BB bill. Most Americans have no clue how much $2 trillion actually is. That’s what was spent on the entire 10 year Iraq war and rebuilding. That’s 2.6 times the defense budget. All this spending lowers the value of the dollar, creates a permanent welfare state, leads to interest rate hikes that will make it impossible for young people to buy their first homes or go to college. It weakens our national security and makes it impossible to for the country to respond in a real national emergency. More children died from suicide than covid. In the risk benefit analysis, was it worth it to shut down the economy and close the schools?
carmine9 wrote:
https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-childrens-covid-cases-double-babies-icu/285-8f06a236-cc0f-40a4-aaab-4bb5b535f6f9Colds don't land kids in the ICU.
Again, those kids are not in ICU because of omicron. They are in there for other reasons.
This is dishonest fear mongering
Even Fauci admitted this. Don't know why he did
Tons of this kinds of "reporting" over the past two years.. get in a car accident but test + when you arrive at the hospital suddenly You Are A Covid Hospitalization (not due to your ruptured spleen, broken bones, and sever head injury.) Same goes for all the many many many other ailments that afflict people.
It's just done to boost up the scary numbers.
EpiRunner wrote:
Liberals are morons.. wrote:
Taking a position on incomplete information is the definition of conjecture.... Anyone who says anything other than "I don't know" regarding things the science isn't settled on is using conjecture...
When Robert Malone is deleted off YouTube and Twitter for his opinions you know the debate is 100% political and has absolutely nothing to do with science.
No one has said that they have all the answers. You have to make the best decisions you can given the information you have available at any given time. If the most recent studies say one thing, you make your decisions based on that. That's why most statements will be, "clinical trials show..." or "based on the most recent data..."
By your logic we should just throw our hands up and do nothing because we'll never be 100% sure.
Well doing nothing would probably have yielded better results.
Sweden is doing just fine compared to most.
When the "best information available" is consistently proven to be wrong people lose faith in the "experts".
You can literally get banned from Twitter for "misinformation" from quoting the CDC or WHO.
NotPC wrote:
carmine9 wrote:
https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-childrens-covid-cases-double-babies-icu/285-8f06a236-cc0f-40a4-aaab-4bb5b535f6f9Colds don't land kids in the ICU.
Again, those kids are not in ICU because of omicron. They are in there for other reasons.
This is dishonest fear mongering
Even Fauci admitted this. Don't know why he did
Tons of this kinds of "reporting" over the past two years.. get in a car accident but test + when you arrive at the hospital suddenly You Are A Covid Hospitalization (not due to your ruptured spleen, broken bones, and sever head injury.) Same goes for all the many many many other ailments that afflict people.
It's just done to boost up the scary numbers.
Yep.
A summary of the litany of key dishonesties.
1. Focus on "cases" where most people are asymptomatic (formerly called healthy);
2. Imply that everyone in the hospital who tests positive for Covid is in there due to Covid.
3. Vastly overstate Covid deaths by calling anyone who dies for any reason who was positive for Covid anytime in the previous 30 days or was "presumed" to have had Covid even without a positive test.
4. Smear, de-platform, and censor anyone who does not go along with the official numbers.
5. Down play and ignore the damage done by the Jabs.
6. Claim the jab provides better immunity than natural immunity.
7. Pretend herd immunity does not exist.
8. Scream about the surge of the omicron variant while not noting how mild it is.
9. Claim the jab prevents transmission and you are being selfish by not taking it and that you are killing others.
10. Later claim that the jab does not prevent transmission and that this was never claimed but that it keeps you from getting seriously ill. But somehow still blame those who won't take the jab are putting you at risk.
11. 24/7 MSM fear campaign. Favorite word is surge. But also, raging, soaring, spiking, lurking, stalking, infiltrating. include scary pictures, inevitably red, purporting to be Covid
carmine9 wrote:
[quote]joed|rttt wrote:
[quote]carmine9 wrote:
Up in Ontario, they had 143 COVID positive individuals in the ICU on the final day of the year. Two weeks prior, they had 108 (about a 25% increase, and about a 47% increase above the five-month average). As for hospitalizations in general, they had 814 in the non-ICU portion of the hospital, two weeks prior, they had 212 (about a 384% increase, and about a 443% increase above the five-month average).
Again, positive Covids in the ICU is not the same as total number in ICU, not total number in ICU due to Covid.
Omicron is a head cold or less.
Why would this hammer hospitals?
Early treatment is quite effective. The fact the CDC does not suggest this in their guidelines for original and delta covid.
It's hard to say if this is the case. We will need to look at the overall hospitalizations as data from the holiday weekend starts to trickle in. They are definitely running into hospital space shortages in Ontario and they have started implementing shutdowns.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-reports-11-352-new-covid-19-cases-hospitalizations-increase-1.5727036carmine9 wrote:
NotPC wrote:
Tons of this kinds of "reporting" over the past two years.. get in a car accident but test + when you arrive at the hospital suddenly You Are A Covid Hospitalization (not due to your ruptured spleen, broken bones, and sever head injury.) Same goes for all the many many many other ailments that afflict people.
It's just done to boost up the scary numbers.
Yep.
A summary of the litany of key dishonesties.
1. Focus on "cases" where most people are asymptomatic (formerly called healthy);
2. Imply that everyone in the hospital who tests positive for Covid is in there due to Covid.
3. Vastly overstate Covid deaths by calling anyone who dies for any reason who was positive for Covid anytime in the previous 30 days or was "presumed" to have had Covid even without a positive test.
4. Smear, de-platform, and censor anyone who does not go along with the official numbers.
5. Down play and ignore the damage done by the Jabs.
6. Claim the jab provides better immunity than natural immunity.
7. Pretend herd immunity does not exist.
8. Scream about the surge of the omicron variant while not noting how mild it is.
9. Claim the jab prevents transmission and you are being selfish by not taking it and that you are killing others.
10. Later claim that the jab does not prevent transmission and that this was never claimed but that it keeps you from getting seriously ill. But somehow still blame those who won't take the jab are putting you at risk.
11. 24/7 MSM fear campaign. Favorite word is surge. But also, raging, soaring, spiking, lurking, stalking, infiltrating. include scary pictures, inevitably red, purporting to be Covid
+1. Post of the year.
This is a great post.
carmine9 wrote:
https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-childrens-covid-cases-double-babies-icu/285-8f06a236-cc0f-40a4-aaab-4bb5b535f6f9Colds don't land kids in the ICU.
Again, those kids are not in ICU because of omicron. They are in there for other reasons.
This is dishonest fear mongering
Even Fauci admitted this. Don't know why he did
From the article
"We are seeing cases of viral pneumonia and respiratory distress, serious lung infections in children even under two years of age," the doctor said. "There's no question that omicron is making a real impact in the youngest of children."
AlohaState wrote:
GettingFasterDude wrote:
There are many powerful people for who COVID-hysteria has become a money and power generating industry. COVID is real. It's a serious thing. I'm not denying its existence, importance, or need for treatment/prevention/vaccination.
But make no mistake about it, COVID-hysteria has become a lucrative industry some very powerful people have a vested interest in preserving.
The federal budget in 2020 was $4.7 trillion after the Trump tax cuts to corporations, up from $4.3 trillion. Trump did have record jobs, wages, investment numbers that would have offset some of this. Trump and Biden spent $5.6, yes more than the entire federal budget, on Covid relief, yet those people who lost income, jobs, homes, businesses were never made whole. Where did the money go? At least $100 billion was lost to fraud. There’s no real accountability. The federal budget for 2021, excluding emergency funding (remember the Iraq War accounting?) was $6.8 trillion. This additional spending has nothing to do with public health or growing the economy or helping blacks. It’s money laundering by the Democratic Party with no accountability or oversight. If the democrats were serious about taxing the rich, they would have done that before introducing the $2 trillion BB bill. Most Americans have no clue how much $2 trillion actually is. That’s what was spent on the entire 10 year Iraq war and rebuilding. That’s 2.6 times the defense budget. All this spending lowers the value of the dollar, creates a permanent welfare state, leads to interest rate hikes that will make it impossible for young people to buy their first homes or go to college. It weakens our national security and makes it impossible to for the country to respond in a real national emergency. More children died from suicide than covid. In the risk benefit analysis, was it worth it to shut down the economy and close the schools?
+1. Another great post.
The fact that the government has no accountability on spending is scary.
They are optimizing to giving themselves more money. A huge percentage of people in the US work in government and not in the private sector. This is a bad thing. Every one of those people has a vested interest in getting more tax payer dollars for themselves.
The system will eventually crash if we continue on this trend.
It's based on how human psychology works. People are more worried about something that is more likely to happen even if the penalty is less severe.
For example there have been studies that parking tickets are more effective when offers give more, lower-amount tickets than fewer higher-amount tickets. Even if the expected value is the same for the parker they are more likely to respond if the likelihood of being punished is higher.
I don't have a citation but recall seeing this study in college.
AlohaState wrote:
GettingFasterDude wrote:
There are many powerful people for who COVID-hysteria has become a money and power generating industry. COVID is real. It's a serious thing. I'm not denying its existence, importance, or need for treatment/prevention/vaccination.
But make no mistake about it, COVID-hysteria has become a lucrative industry some very powerful people have a vested interest in preserving.
The federal budget in 2020 was $4.7 trillion after the Trump tax cuts to corporations, up from $4.3 trillion. Trump did have record jobs, wages, investment numbers that would have offset some of this. Trump and Biden spent $5.6, yes more than the entire federal budget, on Covid relief, yet those people who lost income, jobs, homes, businesses were never made whole. Where did the money go? At least $100 billion was lost to fraud. There’s no real accountability. The federal budget for 2021, excluding emergency funding (remember the Iraq War accounting?) was $6.8 trillion. This additional spending has nothing to do with public health or growing the economy or helping blacks. It’s money laundering by the Democratic Party with no accountability or oversight. If the democrats were serious about taxing the rich, they would have done that before introducing the $2 trillion BB bill. Most Americans have no clue how much $2 trillion actually is. That’s what was spent on the entire 10 year Iraq war and rebuilding. That’s 2.6 times the defense budget. All this spending lowers the value of the dollar, creates a permanent welfare state, leads to interest rate hikes that will make it impossible for young people to buy their first homes or go to college. It weakens our national security and makes it impossible to for the country to respond in a real national emergency. More children died from suicide than covid. In the risk benefit analysis, was it worth it to shut down the economy and close the schools?
Over half the federal budget is spent on health care and social security entitlements and that doesn't even include the $70+ billion for SNAP or any of the other welfare programs.
$300+ billion is just servicing the interest on the debt.
Meanwhile, Democrats won't allow any cuts of any kind and Republicans want to keep all of the entitlements and raise the defense budget every 20 minutes.
Even Rand Paul the most fiscally conservative person in government takes 10 years just to balance the budget.
We're absolutely screwed.
By the summer the panic cycle will be in minimal panic mode as the stringently locked down and high restriction places will open up for the summer and give people hope after they receive their booster shots in February and March to satisfy big pharma. After installing a sense of hope, boom, by the fall the next "variant" will be prevalent and they'll blast it all over the mainstream media as the perpetual cycle returns to the starting point yet again. Time to wake up.
EpiRunner wrote:
carmine9 wrote:
https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-childrens-covid-cases-double-babies-icu/285-8f06a236-cc0f-40a4-aaab-4bb5b535f6f9Colds don't land kids in the ICU.
Again, those kids are not in ICU because of omicron. They are in there for other reasons.
This is dishonest fear mongering
Even Fauci admitted this. Don't know why he did
From the article
"We are seeing cases of viral pneumonia and respiratory distress, serious lung infections in children even under two years of age," the doctor said. "There's no question that omicron is making a real impact in the youngest of children."
His opinion. I do not see this as credible. By very account, omicron is mild and more so in kids like all the other Covids.
Establishment propaganda
joed|rttt wrote:
carmine9 wrote:
[quote]joed|rttt wrote:
[quote]carmine9 wrote:
Up in Ontario, they had 143 COVID positive individuals in the ICU on the final day of the year. Two weeks prior, they had 108 (about a 25% increase, and about a 47% increase above the five-month average). As for hospitalizations in general, they had 814 in the non-ICU portion of the hospital, two weeks prior, they had 212 (about a 384% increase, and about a 443% increase above the five-month average).
Again, positive Covids in the ICU is not the same as total number in ICU, not total number in ICU due to Covid.
Omicron is a head cold or less.
Why would this hammer hospitals?
Early treatment is quite effective. The fact the CDC does not suggest this in their guidelines for original and delta covid.
It's hard to say if this is the case. We will need to look at the overall hospitalizations as data from the holiday weekend starts to trickle in. They are definitely running into hospital space shortages in Ontario and they have started implementing shutdowns.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-reports-11-352-new-covid-19-cases-hospitalizations-increase-1.5727036
Data from Ontario is in. Ratios held about the same (vaccinated rate is still about 30% higher than unvaccinated rate). Cases appear to be flattening, but that is only because they have started to ration testing (positivity rate was 32.7% over the past 4 days). Hospital percentage still at 71% vaccinated, although the number of COVID positive hospitalizations increased by about 27% for both vaxxed and unvaxxed. ICU cases dropped slightly for unvaccinated patients and rose for vaccinated patients. Vaccinated patients now make up 42.3% of ICU cases (from 37.8%).
carmine9 wrote:
EpiRunner wrote:
From the article
"We are seeing cases of viral pneumonia and respiratory distress, serious lung infections in children even under two years of age," the doctor said. "There's no question that omicron is making a real impact in the youngest of children."
His opinion. I do not see this as credible. By very account, omicron is mild and more so in kids like all the other Covids.
Establishment propaganda
I don't see any reports of outbreaks of RSV or measles in Houston. What's putting them in the ICU?
Like I explained to you before, more mild disease with more cases can still lead to more hospitalizations.
joed|rttt wrote:
joed|rttt wrote:
It's hard to say if this is the case. We will need to look at the overall hospitalizations as data from the holiday weekend starts to trickle in. They are definitely running into hospital space shortages in Ontario and they have started implementing shutdowns.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-reports-11-352-new-covid-19-cases-hospitalizations-increase-1.5727036Data from Ontario is in. Ratios held about the same (vaccinated rate is still about 30% higher than unvaccinated rate). Cases appear to be flattening, but that is only because they have started to ration testing (positivity rate was 32.7% over the past 4 days). Hospital percentage still at 71% vaccinated, although the number of COVID positive hospitalizations increased by about 27% for both vaxxed and unvaxxed. ICU cases dropped slightly for unvaccinated patients and rose for vaccinated patients. Vaccinated patients now make up 42.3% of ICU cases (from 37.8%).
Joe, can you humor me and look up which age group has a higher rate of unvaccinated infections than vaccinated infections?
EpiRunner wrote:
joed|rttt wrote:
Data from Ontario is in. Ratios held about the same (vaccinated rate is still about 30% higher than unvaccinated rate). Cases appear to be flattening, but that is only because they have started to ration testing (positivity rate was 32.7% over the past 4 days). Hospital percentage still at 71% vaccinated, although the number of COVID positive hospitalizations increased by about 27% for both vaxxed and unvaxxed. ICU cases dropped slightly for unvaccinated patients and rose for vaccinated patients. Vaccinated patients now make up 42.3% of ICU cases (from 37.8%).
Joe, can you humor me and look up which age group has a higher rate of unvaccinated infections than vaccinated infections?
Joe will jump to the next area once it becomes clear that the vaccine is working in Ontario. Gibraltar, the UK, various random places in the Delta wave, etc; we've been told over and over to 'just wait 2 weeks' and the vaccine will start to fail. No evidence of that so far. How he keeps fooling himself into thinking the current example is any different, I don't know. Over-interpreting raw data with an uncritical eye over and over and over again.
Harambe wrote:
EpiRunner wrote:
Joe, can you humor me and look up which age group has a higher rate of unvaccinated infections than vaccinated infections?
Joe will jump to the next area once it becomes clear that the vaccine is working in Ontario. Gibraltar, the UK, various random places in the Delta wave, etc; we've been told over and over to 'just wait 2 weeks' and the vaccine will start to fail. No evidence of that so far. How he keeps fooling himself into thinking the current example is any different, I don't know. Over-interpreting raw data with an uncritical eye over and over and over again.
It's fair to question the effectiveness of the vaccine against omicron. Whether it's omicron itself or (in my opinion more likely) waning immunity for folks who haven't had a booster remains to be seen. My biggest peeve is people drawing conclusions from data that they don't know how to look at.
DanM wrote:
EpiRunner wrote:
This is something that I can definitely chime in on, it's actually what I did my second master's thesis on.
First though, the definition of risk is the severity of an outcome multiplied by the likelihood of it occuring. The severity of omicron is almost certainly less than that of delta, but because it is more transmissible, you're more likely to get it. On the individual level, if you're healthy you might like your chances and say your risk is lower, and you're probably right. From a public health standpoint, a lot of cases is going to mean a lot of hospitalizations (even if the rate per infection is lower), which overburdens the healthcare system, which leads to poor outcomes for all sorts of things. From that point of view, we'd say that the risk is as high as it's always been, and we'd probably be just as right as you are.
Second, and this was my thesis topic, the public abso-fricking-lutely terrible at judging risk. You might have someone who smokes be worried about getting cancer from their cell phone. Someone who drives 40,000 miles a year for work might be afraid of flying. People panicked over ebola, which had almost no chance of spreading within the US, but will forgo measles vaccination even though there are frequent outbreaks. It's also almost impossible to change people's risk perception once they've made their initial determination. If someone has decided they're afraid of plane crashes, no amount of education on the safety of air travel will change their mind, even when you compare it to the risk of driving.
My risk is lower today compared to any point in the past 663 days of Covid hysteria.
Of course YOUR risk is lower, but this isn't about just you. It's been almost two years now, and you still don't get it. You'll be fine, but the unfortunate one in a hundred (or more) who may have underlying conditions won't be. Hospitals will be overwhelmed even if the severity is lower if the absolute number of infections increases. Your narrow-minded, selfish thinking is what got so many Americans killed.