Salazar got the rawest of deals from this sport

You're giving Salazar way too much credit.

His basic intelligence is ordinary at best, combined with a strikingly misguided ethics. well that was a train wreck waiting to happen.

Better to focus on the big picture when it comes to unpacking:

Vitamin D was for strength gains and bone density. Yes, likely to help the asthmatics and underfed cadre.

Boosting EPO levels beyond thyroid medication? Far beyond his realm. Imagine the mastermind has the brains of a poodle and everything will start to make sense.

His top speed is more along the lines of testosterone rubs and syringes left behind in luxury condos.

Finding an MD to take Nike money and sign off on the deal, just not all that hard.

Basically there was a window where he was allowed and incentivized to commit numerous doping violations and skate. Eventually some athletes spoke up about it and Nike couldn't cover it up.

Nike marketing couldn't save him, though the grey area campaign was effective for a time, the window is now closed. The hobo will not be stealing additional pies.

Like someone posted above, the four year ban was a generous; lifetime was of course entirely warranted.

more comfortable wrote:

There was nothing to ban.

You are kidding, right?

Here's the final CAS judgment on this:

3. Mr. Alberto Salazar committed the following anti-doping rule violations:

a. Possession (2009 WADC Article 2.6) of testosterone in furtherance of the Testosterone Experiment;

more comfortable wrote:

What you fail to grasp is that hardly any substances are banned absolutely.

The drug agencies determine what appropriate levels of said substances should be in a normal, not-doped athlete and then give a max threshold.

Not quite. Read 2.1.3 of the current WADA code:

Excepting those substances for which a Decision Limit is specifically identified in the Prohibited List or a Technical Document, the [b[presence of any reported quantity of a Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers in an Athlete’s Sample shall constitute an anti-doping rule violation.

The so-called "Threshold Limit" is based on the precision of the analysis method, and the "Decision Limit" is set one confidence interval higher, to allow for experimental errors. Nothing to do with what's naturally in the athlete's body.

There are just a few substances where certain amounts are allowed, as specified in the Prohibited List, see page 9 of the 2021 version.

Prohibited substances like testo, that are " in a normal, not-doped athlete ", are forbidden in any amount "When administered exogenously". This can be determined by analyzing the CIR, as Gatlin found out the hard way (and Houlihan too. with nandro).

Ironically Gatlin's testo ban was allegedly the trigger for Salazar's testo experiment.

All that makes sense.

If you’re talking about OP athletes being dirty you’re missing the point.

Look, the chances are that probably >60% of pro athletes in the world have at some point in their career done something to break WADA rules.

This is a dirty sport. While it’s easy to believe everyone is clean so we can protect ourselves, that’s not the case.

So saying Salazar is a horrible coach for doping isn’t really much difference than any other coach that supports/doesn’t condemn doping (which is a lot more than you think). If anything, the constant description of Salazar as using “grey area” methods would seem to be less intrusive into PEDs as other coaches/athletes.

You have to remember that the Oregon project might be the most investigated sporting group in the history of sports. It’s been going on for nearly a decade now and they’ve pinned their coach up on some undeniably bad things, but certainly questionable if they improved performance. And not a single athlete has tested positive (yeah yeah I know lance didn’t either)

Start having civil, thoughtful discussions and then you would garner the respect of others.

I stand by my original points. You have no justification to accuse others of things they have not been proven guilty of. You can’t just “put 2 and 2 together” in these scenarios.

You’ve proven that you’re arrogant, often grammatically incorrect, and easily offended. That doesn’t automatically mean you are Donald Trump, and I don’t assume you are a child (despite your writing style). See how that works? You sound like an armchair quarterback…..like I said….the worst.

You’re not my patient, I have no need to share my credentials with you. I certainly don’t make 250k….yet (I’m a surgical resident). I run mid 16s in the 5k off 40mpw. And for what it’s worth, my wife IS hot :)

The hearing would only take into account the evidence provided and not the rumour mill.

Given no actual athlete doping was determined then the four years seems harsh in proportionality terms but it had to be 4 yrs.

ggilder wrote:

Are you seriously denying long-standing systemic racism and discrimination against Hispanics/Latinos in the US? How does Houlihan negate that? Why are you so obsessed with denial?.

That's how it works? List the achievements of a Person of Color and conclude they have never faced racism nor will they ever face it in the future? How easy and convenient a test for you. Your den must be very proud.

There is no racism in the US except Affirmative Action preferences, which stigmatize achievement by the assumed beneficiaries.

What a ridiculous statement. You people can't be taken seriously.

And I even had to fix up (somewhat) the mangled quote system that you racist Salazar haters seem to never be able to use.

I actually think it would be nice to have more transparency in the sexual conduct case.

But the ridiculous idea that he's somehow a victim is something only the letsrun message boarders can manage to spin.

We really REALLY love to romanticize "tough coaching" and we also REALLY love to do that when that tough coach is coaching someone else and isn't coaching us...

Salazar wasn't a tough coach. He was abusive. He crossed a line with Mary Cain. Is it the worst case of abuse in the world? No, that award I'm sure would go to a gymnastics coach of some kind, but yes, it was still abuse. So stop minimizing it. He didn't just call her fat or tell her to lose weight. He gave her drugs and laxatives that she didn't have prescriptions for, and screamed at her that she "gained five pounds" because she went to Denny's for a pre-race meal, in front of a huge crowd of people.

I'll tell what is not a secret ... wrote:

I will tell you what is not a secret O.P., Salazar was handed a 1:59.xx 17 female 800m runner and he messed up. In Salazar's mind, everyone is a potential 5000m to Marathon athlete. Think if someone were handed Bob Hayes or Carl Lewis and a coach messed the situation up. Stop crying for Salazar.

He deserves a ban for not coaching a young talent to global success? Why haven’t we banned the coaches of EVERY female footlocker champion ever apart from Seidel? All of them have failed to live up to expectations.

This is just such a stupid argument.

lolz...you really got me with your self righteous passive aggressive insult hahaha.

your a liar and all you have to do is link your "published" papers, prove what school you went to for your BS (in your case bullsh*t not bachelors of science), then where you got your MD. which you cant cause your a liar. which is funny how you like the others on here are DEMANDING the proof of what al sal did, yet you cant PROVE your boasts...kinda makes you a f*cking hypocrite now doesnt it?

a liar is afraid to tell the truth cause it will expose him for what he is....a liar

you are not a surgical resident, and you didnt publish any papers for exercise science. and you sure as hell dont run 16s on 40mpw.

pretty easy to make me eat my words but you wont do it cause your a liar, but if you are telling the truth how hard is it to prove? pretty easy

-links to papers you published

-links to 5k strava or race results

-links to your linkedin to prove your current job and degrees

-pics of your wife, cause there are lots of LR 40yr old virgins who always demand pics

and that should do it....if you cant or refuse to do this, then shut the f*ck up about the proof that got al sal permanently banned

If Alberto had not been coaching Kara and Mary Cain, this thread would not exist. Nonetheless, Jerry and Wetmore both coached Kara without being turned into USATF and USADA. And I really don't know if Cain would have improved under a different coach or if she had already played out her potential at 18. The road to hell is paved with the good intentions of the coaches of teen running prodigies. And Salazar got to coach perhaps the two most talented ones we have seen in the US. One who continued to prosper (Mary Decker) and one who did not (Mary Cain).

None of his athletes were ever found to be cheaters. I, as a parent would not have allowed him to work with my daughters as he is very tough on his athletes. I understand some of his runners didn't like what he said about loosing weight but that is between him, the athlete and the atheletes parents if she/he is under age. Mary Cain's parents as well as Mary need to take some blame is this mess too.

I, as a former runner would have like to run for him because he gets the most out of his athletes. He is a victim of the woke mob.

Whether you think His being "handed" the spoiled brat who ran 1:59 who you know nothing about how she was entitled all her life and she had poor mechanics, which eventually catches up to you, and that he "screwed it up,"

he was still railroaded as a person and coach.

9h0f3 wrote:

But the ridiculous idea that he's somehow a victim is something only the letsrun message boarders can manage to spin.

Hos shocking to see denial on LRC. You know what they say about those in denial . . . . .

Be rather charming of you if you could manage to post in a language we are familiar with.

I’m not trying to “get you”. I’m telling you that you shouldn’t be making outrageous claims about people based on an elementary understanding of exercise physiology. Making accusatory claims that tarnish records is mob mentality. Thank goodness USADA, WADA, and SafeSport don’t hire clowns….

I owe you nothing. None of the things I’ve done are “outstanding”, but they certainly lend credibility to any claims I make about mitochondrial function, lipid metabolism, and human physiology. My colleagues respect that; I couldn’t give two rats asses if you do.

There is no equivalence between this conversation and Al Sal’s situation. Here, some internet clown is accusing me of lying; I owe you nothing. There, a preeminent coach at the highest level of professional sport is accused of cheating and athlete abuse; he ABSOLUTELY owes it to the public, governing organizations, and his athletes to provide proof in every endeavor.

I started by saying my point wasn’t about whether he was rightly or wrongly banned…it’s about yahoos like you spouting off like they know something important when they JUST DONT. No amount of “doing your research” on the internet will make you an expert or give you the credibility to make claims like you did. Only getting a proper education would. I did, I’ve worked in the field for 15 years, and I’m still not foolish enough to say beyond a reason of a doubt that “X athlete and coach just HAD to be doping because DUH”.

You’re playing a fools game, and you look like fool.

more comfortable wrote:

For starters, Salazar was already serving a doping ban in which no actual doping violations were proven to have occurred.

Secondly, he is now banned for life by a secret process and the accusations are from anonymous plaintiffs.

Hard to disagree with that.

The offences precipitating Salazar's sanctions are the sort of thing which would barely warrant attention from a lesser-known coach. And meted punishments are similarly disproportionate.

USADA, and now SafeSport, have been weaponized by those with an axe to grind. They've transcended from creating level playing fields to become tools for destroying careers, reputations. and propelling civil suits.

To show how political these processes are, here's an example. These are sanctions USADA handed down to US Postal Service team members, who were all guilty of essentially the same offences:

Armstrong - Lifetime Ban in any sanctioned sport (and loss of nearly all titles)

Landis - 2 years

Hincapie - 6 months

Leipheimer - 6 months

Van de Velde - 6 months

Zabriskie - 6 months

Danielson - 6 months

Barry - 6 months

It's analogous to DAs looking for high-profile take downs to gain notoriety and career prestige. Which crimes are charged, and how vigorously they're pursued, can be more about personal gain than pursuit of blind justice.

Ernest wrote:

USADA, and now SafeSport, have been weaponized by those with an axe to grind. They've transcended from creating level playing fields to become tools for destroying careers, reputations. and propelling civil suits.

To show how political these processes are, here's an example. These are sanctions USADA handed down to US Postal Service team members, who were all guilty of essentially the same offences:

Armstrong - Lifetime Ban in any sanctioned sport (and loss of nearly all titles)

Landis - 2 years

Hincapie - 6 months

Leipheimer - 6 months

Van de Velde - 6 months

Zabriskie - 6 months

Danielson - 6 months

Barry - 6 months

It's analogous to DAs looking for high-profile take downs to gain notoriety and career prestige. Which crimes are charged, and how vigorously they're pursued, can be more about personal gain than pursuit of blind justice.

Absolutely agree that WADA and USADA are corrupt full of virtue signalers looking for promotions.

and just like i called it....you cant prove your boasts cause your are just a LR troll. and as i told you i have a degree in exercise physiology, and i got a geology one year later. unlike you i can think outside the box. i predicted rosa going down, i predicted kiprop getting busted, i called gatlin getting busted when he ducked asafa powell 2 meets in a row.

you claim your high and mighty lie of 16 5k, unlike you i actually ran in college and have REAL prs.

if you have been in the sport as long as i have and ran at a highly competitive level and trained with insanely talented people you learn a lot. when a mid tier goes to world class its PEDs, when a world class becomes unbeatable its PEDs, when al sal is doing macro dosing with things that seem novel to morans like you i see the connection.

you are prob so new to LR you prob forgot about teg and solinsky dabbling in blood platelets with thyroids....boom then they both run sub 13, teg had a conscience and retired. was that all they were doing? im sure those things were to help with the mirco dosing. im sure in your 15 years of superior self righteousness you think shelbs burrito story is legit dont you?

im sure in your 15yrs and that bogus degree you could coach 100m-marathon like a boss huh? you prob have no concept of structured training, im sure you would just regurgitate "lactic acid threshold" and "blood lactate pace" and think you are some sort of God.

al sal doped himself, doped mary slaney and you think after that he was just doing a little thyroid here, a few vit D and l-carnitine and he is some saint. he had rupp prescribed test while he was in HIGH SCHOOL, he rubbed his son down with androgel, and then had his sleazy doc (im sure you are smarter than doc brown as well cause your soooo edumacated) send him results so he knew what the cut off was to glow. this same doc fudge the numbers on the l-carnitine infusions so they were under the allowable limit.

i dont read conspiracy sites, i find actual medical and scientific papers that prove my point, and self proclaimed Gods as yourself scoff the links then try to subtlety insult me with your higher than thou passive aggressive bullsh*t. each time the anonymous smug claims mid major, top tier ivy something in the STEM field and how they are colleagues with highly decorated people in some vague scientific field.

sorry bro but your a liar and im not a sheep