Anyone besides me getting less impressed by Kessler's 3:34, two guys who can't even make it to NCAAs just ran 3:37

sigh..... wrote:

RoJo, why do you keep using examples of slower times to support your opinion that Hobbs’s 3:34 1500m wasn’t that good? Stick to the examples of faster runs please. Also, why are you singling out this child to pick on? Did you not get as much attention as you thought you deserved in HS?

You are an IDIOT. He never said the 3:34 1500 wasn't good. Nobody is picking on Hobbs. In his post he even said Hobbs is a supreme talent.

2021_s wrote:

king999 wrote:

If its not a big deal, how many U.S. guys, Not Internationals have run 3:34.xx this year, not last, not in 2019...

Way more than by June 4, 2016 heading into the olympic trials. (That year it was 0)

Interesting point. The timing of when people run fast in Olympic years can sometimes be anomalous, depending when the Trials are, whether the rules allow for standard-chasing after Trials, whether there's a massive global pandemic that hinders travel, etc. etc.

That said, it looks like the recent high-water mark was 2013, with nine Americans at 3:34.xx or better. So it wasn't a completely unattainable threshold even with "old" shoes. It seems pretty clear that the shoes are making some sort of difference, but it'll take some time (i.e. probably at least one "normal" track season) to get a handle on the size of the effect. Whatever it turns out to be, I can't imagine any scenario where 3:34 by a high-schooler becomes anything less than jaw-dropping, even if its "intrinsic" value turns out to be more like 3:36-37.

This is a DUMB take. Are you saying NCAA coaches are so STUPID that they needed a pandemic in order to make their runners faster? If anything, the pandemic is hurting them because many athletes had cross country championships 2 days after their indoor track championships, and now 2.5 months later they have outdoor track championships then a week after that they have the Olympic Trials. How is that better than what they had before?

Pro times are significantly faster this year. Here is what 3:37.00 would rank each year:

2021 - 18th (not even close to the end of the year, as most top times come from the summer)

2020 - 9th

2019 - 9th

2018 - 11th

2017 - 13th

2016 - 14th

2015 - 15th

2014 - 9th

Hahaha unkle what happened here?? Where have you been over the last year? Why did xcfan need to tell you about the 5k 10k world records, Sub2 and kiplimos 3k? And why did you write something so ridiculous and so easily refuted? It’s not like he pulled out some obscure distance running knowledge, he just told you about literally the three biggest performances over the last few years in distance running. Sense of self belief oml... that’s honestly worse than Jewish space lasers.

As for the original post, Rojo, taking repeated shots at a high schooler’s incredible performance is a bad look for anybody, as a leader in track and field media, it’s really inappropriate. He just accomplished something he’s put so much work into, something no one else in history has ever done, something absurdly impressive, only to go online to find the owner of a running website writing articles about its not really even that good. Don’t pass judgement on him like he’s a pro, he’s in high school, let the man have some of the pride that he’s earned.

No. NCAA guys had nearly 9 months of uninterrupted base training without races or the strain of peaking. Most of the top guys did indoors OR XC, not both. It also would have only been a single peak, not two. They also all have virtual classes. Their schedules are so much more free than before. They trained like pros this past year.

Your numbers are also tainted because you INCLUDE college students (and Kessler) in them. Once we remove them, only 13 pros have run 3:37 or faster this year. Which is inline with an Olympic year.

Worldwide, the pros have not been significantly faster on average. We are seeing an anomaly ONLY in the college scene BECAUSE of the pandemic altering season structure and changing the way students attend classes.

Honestly, I would root against him if he went after Alan Webb's mile record because I came of age with Alan Webb running in Northern Virginia at that time and even knew him a little and was good friends w/his high school teammates in college. I'd rather not see Webb's 3:53 go down, but that's about it.

I like the different eras comment.

rojo wrote:

For the record, I think Kessler is a SUPREME talent but when everyone runs 3:37, 3:34 isn't all that.

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2021/06/2021-stumptown-twilight-results-josh-kerr-331-crushes-1500-craig-engels-sinclaire-johnson-win-800s/

"In the second heat, two guys who didn't even make it to NCAAs, picked up Olympic Trials qualifiers by dropping their PBs from 3:41 to 3:37.  New Mexico sophomore Abdirizak Ibrahim, who was only 16th in the 5000 at NCAA regionals last week, won in 3:37.19 as Oregon redshirt senior Jack Yearian, who was 16th in the 1500 at regionals and ran the 10,000 at Pac 12s (where he was 7th in 29:00 in his only Pac 12 track appearance during his Oregon career) ran 3:37.24."

Truthfully? Who really cares who or what you are impressed with or by?

Should we be?

He's in High School for a little while. He ran faster than any HSer or Collegiate ever.

Who cares if its 'only' 3 seconds faster? That's what doesn't impress you?

3/10 rojo because you have generated a lot of responses.

Kessler broke the NCAA best ever, and he's not even in college yet.

EOS

It's a big deal.

aztec the moronic wrote:

sigh..... wrote:

RoJo, why do you keep using examples of slower times to support your opinion that Hobbs’s 3:34 1500m wasn’t that good? Stick to the examples of faster runs please. Also, why are you singling out this child to pick on? Did you not get as much attention as you thought you deserved in HS?

You are an IDIOT. He never said the 3:34 1500 wasn't good. Nobody is picking on Hobbs. In his post he even said Hobbs is a supreme talent.

Hahahahahaha oh man what a reply. Lets break it down:

1. "You are an IDIOT." - Your dismissive assumption about my intelligence based on my post? This is arguably the best part of your reply. Perhaps consider subtleties however. Or you're welcome to reread my post as a crash course in how to be critical and even a bit insulting without writing the other person out of the conversation and making yourself sound unreasonable.

2. "He never said the 3:34 1500 wasn't good." - I actually didn't say this. What I said was that RoJo thinks "Hobbs’s 3:34 1500m wasn’t that good." This is based on the multiple unprovoked arguments RoJo has made on LRC.

3. "Nobody is picking on Hobbs." - See 2 above. Someone is picking on Hobbs.

4. "In his post he even said Hobbs is a supreme talent." - Yes, we know. RoJo famously wrote an article like three days ago entitled "Hobbs Kessler Ran Amazing……..But……"

I feel like I did that year in the late 90s when McGwire and Sosa shattered the home run record.

I used to wonder at the start of each year if anyone would make a run at 50 homers. It was pretty rare and a big deal.

AS the season went on and these guys were slamming homers at an historic rate. most fans were super excited. I was uncomfortable. It did not feel right. It should not be happening.

Same thing we all the fast times being run now. It has to be the shoes..and that does not feel right.

A 3:33 1500 should be amazing. This year it is ho-hum.

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

Right. Suddenly in 2020 and 2021 dozens of non Africans have a sense of self belief and have knocked several seconds off their mile prs.

Africans are not running crazy times? Did the long-standing 5k and 10k records not fall last year? Did Kiplimo not run one of the fastest 3ks in decades? Did the 2 hour barrier in the marathon not fall?

Lol. Yeah, shockingly.... somehow.... coevett missed the 1:59 Marathon and the Untouchable Bekele records getting crushed. Oh, wait those times had nothing to do with the shoes but were only due to EPO. My bad!

[ and if Jacob breaks a world record someday, it will of course have nothing to do with drugs, shoes, or anything else other than hard work, good genetics , good coaching and the courageous self-belief of breaking through the racist barriers holding back white runners!]

Oh, you're back. Out on parole?

The 1:59 marathon had a lot of other factors behind it than shoes. Didn't Kipchoge go back to his old shoes in his last race.

And pointing to Cheptegai only proves my point. It was a Ugandan who destroyed those records. The same Uganda that Hermans and the like are flocking to now that testing has been improved in Kenya.

I didn't say that the shoes aren't improving times, I said it's only half the story.

wejo wrote:

Soleless wrote:

Rojo, the shoe companies agree with you. Time bonuses are way down or set to ridiculous marks because no one is sure what the technology will muster.

If you have any info on this email me

wejo@letsrun.com

would love some concrete examples. can stay anonymous

This is ridiculous. The major shoe companies want athletes breaking records in their shoes. It’s the best advertising you can get. The athlete bonuses were never all that significant unless your are a top elite.

3:33.00 is never Ho-hum, and its not now. As I have said a million times by now, shouldn't guys be running, with regularity, close to or times run by Jim Ryun over 50 years ago? And I do know how talented and great he was.

Does MD and LD running have the lock on being the only piece of a sport that shouldn't improve, because that's what I see a lot on here ,and quite frankly other sites not connected to this.

Athletes have gotten better in every single sport, but there is some Parochial view of Middle Distance and distance running, that anyone running faster or even as fast as a legend did 54 years ago, is either a drug cheat or has Jetson like footwear?

Its insane. In a country that is 50% bigger at least than the Ryun era, we should have , by now, 7 guys or so a year that can run 3:32 any year, and every year. Maybe more really? And a few a year that run 3:30 flat or better by now.

aztec the moronic wrote:

sigh..... wrote:

RoJo, why do you keep using examples of slower times to support your opinion that Hobbs’s 3:34 1500m wasn’t that good? Stick to the examples of faster runs please. Also, why are you singling out this child to pick on? Did you not get as much attention as you thought you deserved in HS?

You are an IDIOT. He never said the 3:34 1500 wasn't good. Nobody is picking on Hobbs. In his post he even said Hobbs is a supreme talent.

Yes, but to claim that Webb’s mile is still better than Kessler’s record is just stupid. Webb’s record was crushed, not just edged out by a tenth of a second.

How fast does someone like Kessler have to run before it is conceded without caveats that Kessler is superior? Willis is absolutely right - Kessler is a raw talent who was unknown two years ago. This is why Kessler’s record is amazing - better than any NCAA runner. Mic drop.

I would be a little more impressed had Hobbs Kessler run 3:34 against Webb, and a lot more impressed had he run 3:34 in the 60's against Ryun.

But, on the one hand, Ryun was not too far from the world record in high school (less than 2 sec). Kessler is farther away from the WR, but running against a larger historical population with better training methods.

I can't say which was more impressive.

running2begood wrote:

you’re such a moron. kessler still ran faster than any college kid has run IN HISTORY. Faster than cooper teare, faster than teare, faster than nuguse.

When 17, Jakob Ingebrigtsen was 3.14 seconds faster than Hobbs, so your definition of “College Kid” is clearly limited to “American college kid competing in the USA”.

College kid means NCAA. If Kessler goes pro and runs 3:29 next year, we won't call him a college kid either.

I keep thinking back to 1996 when the US had trouble finding 3 men in the whole country that could run under 3:38 over the full year.

Time for a recap. Hobbs Kessler is less impressive than you think, because:

1. His spikes are amazing

2. He had more opportunities to run 3:34 than Webb did

3. He trains with pros sometimes

4. He wasant on national TV like Webb

5. It wasn't windy

6. Lots of people got PBs in the race

7. Usain Bolt was faster

8. There are college guys running 3:37 who didn't make the NCAA finals