It seems to me that this is Japan's decision. Why doesn't Japan just say, "Without vaccination, there is no entry into the Olympics for athletes, coaches, support staff, and spectators." It's just a few dozen people per country or a few hundred for the large nations. Vaccinating those people should be easy.
zofingen wrote:
They are not cancelling.
. . .
The Olympics would be different because..... foreigners! I just watched a wtcs triathlon (triathlon olympians) in Yokohama on May 15th. Athletes couldn’t leave the hotel the entire week before and were only let out to recon the course the day before. It was a prison experience.
. . .
Let the games begin. . . speaking of fearing the porn, all they have to do is supply a boatload of condoms like during past Olympics and everything will be fine.
olympic insider wrote:
2. do you have any clue on the functioning of the Health system in Japan or in Tokyo given the covid situation? (by the way, the curve is trending up).
The peak has seemed to be reach and they're on their way down the other side now. Not to say it's all finished, but that looks promising, even for the more scared among us.
Spainflyer wrote:
Rojo – Imma cut you some slack because you were spot on about Yared Neguse and his rising star. But I gotta tell you – about the Tokyo Olympics, your facts are (mostly) right, but it’s your interpretation that’s wrong.
A bit of the background story we all have read, but not all believe:
Japan can’t buy / get nearly enough vaccine because the gov’t thought Japanese researchers could produce one, but they couldn’t. Now they have to buy on the open market and are counting on other nations to donate (NY Times today).
Japan will not vaccinate millions of citizens even by the end of this year – their goal is to vaccinate 5000 per day in Tokyo, population 13 million (BBC, Monday).
Thomas Bach says 80% of the athletes will be vaccinated, but the New England Journal of Medicine (the gold standard for medical research) says Bach has dreamed up this figure and can cite nothing to substantiate it.
So forget protecting the Japanese population through vaccination before July 23rd.
But…Rojo and many others are right – Japan has a significantly lower incidence of Covid-19 than the US or many European nations. AND (this is the important point) they want to keep it that way. The protests, the online petitions, the declarations from Japanese medical authorities and unions, the cancelation demands of Olympic Games sponsor Asahi Shimbun are for just this reason: Opposition to the Games is NOT because the Japanese want to protect athletes, coaches, trainers, massage people and the “Olympic Family” from Covid – it is because they want to protect themselves from this influx of 80,000 plus foreigners (shut out of Japan now as they have been for some time) carrying the Indian, the Brazilian, the South African, and goodness knows what other strains of the virus.
Zofingen’s report on the Triathlon championships is really interesting, and disturbing. The draconian restrictions the Japanese authorities were able to impose on a few dozen participants will fail when they try to apply them to all Olympic athletes. They simply don’t have person-power to assign a “handler” to every foreign visitor intent on celebrating the Olympics as the Olympics have traditionally been celebrated. If in doubt, see Lochte, Ryan: Rio 2016. Also, see Bolt, Usain, Beijing 2008…
I think RoJo is seeing the problem through the eyes of a healthy, vaccinated (foreign) journalist who would not miss the Games for anything. We have to realize that 80% of the Japanese public does not see it his way.
BTW, you might also incorporate another LR thread: “When Will They Announce the Cancellation of the Olympics?”
Blah blah blah blah.
Bottomline is they wussed out last year. Will they wuss out again this year? Probably.
toozy wrote:
How many Olympic athletes are truly ‘in danger’ from covid?
1% - at a push, maybe.
At worst they should vaccinate every official at the game alongside making sure they’re outside the at risk groups and keep everybody involved in a bubble.
The " olympic " games where like 98 percent of the athletes can't even bench press 225 for 1 rep.
fisky wrote:
It seems to me that this is Japan's decision. Why doesn't Japan just say, "Without vaccination, there is no entry into the Olympics for athletes, coaches, support staff, and spectators." It's just a few dozen people per country or a few hundred for the large nations. Vaccinating those people should be easy.
and make them into Super-Spreaders of Covid!
wejo wrote:
A few facts. 1) Japan has less Covid deaths per capita (currently last 7 day average) than the US
2) Japan has less Covid cases per capita (last 7 day average) than the US
Yet everything in the US is heading back to normal.
The US is a terrible benchmark. We failed.
Seems like Japan cares more about protecting their people than putting on a show.
Spainflyer wrote:
But…Rojo and many others are right – Japan has a significantly lower incidence of Covid-19 than the US or many European nations. AND (this is the important point) they want to keep it that way. The protests, the online petitions, the declarations from Japanese medical authorities and unions, the cancelation demands of Olympic Games sponsor Asahi Shimbun are for just this reason: Opposition to the Games is NOT because the Japanese want to protect athletes, coaches, trainers, massage people and the “Olympic Family” from Covid – it is because they want to protect themselves from this influx of 80,000 plus foreigners (shut out of Japan now as they have been for some time) carrying the Indian, the Brazilian, the South African, and goodness knows what other strains of the virus.
+1000000000
Japans thoughts: Protect our country and our citizens first
Rojo thoughts: Screw Japan and their concerns, we need to see people run!!!
It’s not fear porn, it’s avoiding a resurgence.
John_James_413 wrote:
The " olympic " games where like 98 percent of the athletes can't even bench press 225 for 1 rep.
No, Olympic Games, where 98% of female gymnasts can outlift your pathetic a$$ pound for pound
Duh, I set a world record for the one armed Smith machine curl at 6'0" 210 pounds at a temperature of 72 degrees and relative humidity of 43% while having 10 or more breaks in my other arm and severe brain damage. Trey Hardee can suck it.
honestly, a fair question, but it just shows the disconnection between the reality in the US, where people are getting vaccinated, and the reality of a significant portion of countries around the world (including the one I live). Vaccinating those people "should be easy". Well, yes. But some countries are struggling to vaccinate even their elderly. How do you justify the olympic athletes skipping the line and getting ahead of everyone to get their vaccines when people are anxiously waiting for their vaccines? I am in my 40s and in South America. I don't think i will get vaccinated this year. I don't see a problem personally of the athletes skipping the line and getting their vaccines ahead of me, but that is not the reality for perhaps the majority of the population, who could care less about the Olympics. Then extrapolate that to the 200 participating Nations. Convince politicians - some of them certainly contrary to the Olympics this year - of vaccinating all Olympic athletes whatever their policy is. No, not so easy.
fisky wrote:
It seems to me that this is Japan's decision. Why doesn't Japan just say, "Without vaccination, there is no entry into the Olympics for athletes, coaches, support staff, and spectators." It's just a few dozen people per country or a few hundred for the large nations. Vaccinating those people should be easy.
Healthcare system in Japan is same as precovid. No change.
Japan doesn't really peak. Covid-19 numbers go sideways forever because they do nothing for covid-19 here, only masks.
Schools closed for one week over a year ago.
That's it. No social distancing anywhere. Crowded trains and shopping the entire pandemic. They were lucky for a year, skating by on masks alone. Time's up.
america's numbers will cross Japan's in the future (fast USA vaccine distribution vs. Japanese gov. red tape). Japan does essentially nill to mitigate covid-19 in reality. They posture safety. viruses don't care about posturing or politeness.
Nope, regarding watchers assigned to every Olympic athlete, 24/7, it will happen. 100%.
If it's a problem regarding foreigners, they are VERY serious. (Xenophobia). They don't posture about racism.... Not enough manpower to do it? 40 million in Kanto. Are there 40 million Olympians?
the macdaddy wrote:
The US is a terrible benchmark. We failed.
Exactly. Saying that Japan is doing better than the U.S. is the most breathtakingly lame argument imaginable. But that's the kind of muddle-headed thinking we've come to expect from the Johnsons.
Japan needs to give the IOC two very clear choices:
1) Delay the Games until October to give us more time to vaccinate, or
2) Cancel the whole damn thing.
The '64 Games in Tokyo were held in October. If the IOC did it then (because of the heat), they can certainly do it during a global pandemic.
And arrogant old fools like John Coates and Dick Pound really need to put a cork in it. They seem to have no clue how poorly their arrogant declarations are playing here in Japan.
DQ lite wrote:
Covid-19 numbers go sideways forever because they do nothing for covid-19 here, only masks.
Schools closed for one week over a year ago.
False. All false.
The gov't has declared a state of emergency at least three times since the start of the pandemic. If you think that' s "nothing," you need to talk to the some of the many bar/restaurant owners who have gone out of business as a result.
People here in Japan have made enormous sacrifices to avoid the carnage they saw in the U.S. And the government has had to make difficult decisions to try to limit the economic damage.
Schools in Japan were closed for much longer than a week.
You ought to be ashamed of your lies.
DQ lite wrote:
Healthcare system in Japan is same as precovid. No change.
Japan doesn't really peak. Covid-19 numbers go sideways forever because they do nothing for covid-19 here, only masks.
Schools closed for one week over a year ago.
That's it. No social distancing anywhere. Crowded trains and shopping the entire pandemic. They were lucky for a year, skating by on masks alone. Time's up.
So far Japan has navigated the COVID-19 crisis far better then the US or Europe. The whole point of postponing the games is to avoid a US- or European-style pandemic hitting Japan. The Japanese people do not what that inflicted upon them by the IOC. To put it brutally, it would mean over 100000 Japanese people dying because of COVID and the IOC seems quite happy to take that risk as well as risking further COVID 19 deaths in the rest of the world purely because of money. The Games can still take place next year if the IOC wants them to and if the pandemic situation is under better control with vaccination programs being finally well established by then.
Can't delay it again, Aliphine has two more babies planned between 2021 and 2024.
Today’s Guardian brings the following news:
(As predicted on Let’s Run) State of emergency to be extended in Tokyo for third time – now until June 20th, since “restrictions on businesses failed to make a dent in infections.”
“The daily caseload is still too high to justify an end to the measures,” said “medical experts.”
Tokyo’s aim? “daily cases in Tokyo needed to be brought to below 100…”
One hundred new cases per day in a city of almost 14 million???
As I said earlier, the goal is not to protect the athletes and the “Olympic Family,” but to protect the Japanese people.
Could this be a tactic? Keep raising (or lowering, according to viewpoint) the infections bar so that the goal is never reached, and it will always be unsafe to hold the Olympics, and therefore cancel?
If you want three devastating articles really laying out the dangers posed by the dictatorial powers of the IOC, which the IOC is exercising, you could start here. Just one short excerpt from each, but the articles are worth reading:
Democracy Now
https://www.democracynow.org/2021/5/27/cancel_tokyo_olympics
Olympic athletes “are being asked to sign (a waiver) in order to participate in the Olympics. I read this waiver and I found it brazen. It said explicitly that if this individual were to contract coronavirus and, in fact, die, they would not hold liable the responsible parties for the Olympics….We’re looking at the International Olympic Committee that seems to be perfectly willing to have people in Tokyo and Japan dying so that they can make a killing.”
The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/opinion/cancel-olympics.html
“…the Olympic steamroller rumbles forward. There are three main reasons: money, money and money. And let’s be clear: Most of that money trickles up, not to athletes but to those who manage, broadcast and sponsor the Games…The situation is crude but clear: Olympic organizers are not willing to sacrifice their profits for public health.”
The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/24/japan-cancel-olympics-coronavirus
“The most damning factor is the spectacular failure of the vaccination programme. With a mere 4.4% of the population getting their first jab to date, Japan is at the very bottom of the OECD rankings – it has yet to even finish inoculating all medical professionals.”
Lots of interesting hypotheses on this thread and lots to respond to. Here's one item I haven't seen discussed yet.
There is a lot of discussion about how quickly Japan should be able to vaccinate enough people- volunteers, health care workers, vulnerable population in time for the Games But in reality, all of these people must get their first dose of Pfizer/Moderna vaccination within the next two weeks to be ready for Opening Ceremonies. I have not seen any plan showing how this can be done.
Here is the timeline in reverse order:
July 23: Opening ceremonies
July 16: 1 week build-in period for travel, volunteer training, etc. This is a reasonable estimate for target date of full immunity for target populations: athletes, training staff, coaches, volunteers, vulnerable population, etc.
July 2: Max immunity is cited as 2 weeks after 2nd dose of Pfizer/Moderna. Therefore, second dose must be given by this date.
June 11: 3 weeks before the 2nd dose. In the case Moderna, its 4 weeks, but we'll stay with the shorter period for now. So June 11 is the date for initial Pfizer dose
May 28: Today
The 1 dose J&J vaccine could accelerate this, but J&J only filed for approval in Japan on May 24, and says it won't roll out its vaccine there until early 2022. It is not widely available in all countries so I didn't include it above.
You could argue with the 1 week advance time before the Opening Ceremonies- which is balanced by my selection of 3 weeks between doses (Pfizer) vs. 4 required by Moderna.
So- the bottom line is that in order to argue for vaccinations as a solution, there are 14 days left to figure out how.
Earlyboy wrote:
Can't delay it again, Aliphine has two more babies planned between 2021 and 2024.
Sure they can. They can easily postpone two more months, until October, which would give Japan time to vaccinate.
But the IOC hasn't even entertained that idea because they've sold their souls to NBC, which doesn't want a schedule conflict with American football and the "World" Series.
And just for emphasis: John Coates and Dick Pound really need to STFU.