Official 2020 Rome DL Live Discussion Thread - Jakob vs Jacob ---We're about to find out who's better over 3000

1) perfectly paced is irrelevant because I'm pretty sure the races where Hill, Kennedy, Mark Carroll, Dieter Baumann etc - who all came close to the 7.30.00 (within a second) were also in perfectly paced races (as none of them finished better than 4th in their races)

2) Jakob is 20. Hill was 26, Bob 27, Mark 27 and Dieter 33. As you go up distances the strength that comes naturally with age is so important at especially events over the mile.

3) Point remains and it's indisputable - despite many good/great white/Caucasian (however you want to say it) athletes trying to run under this barrier, only one in history had been able to up until today.

So given that fact and the fact he's 20 - it is in the least, a little surprising.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Tobin's PBs of 3:41.87/3:57.00/7:59/13:56.

Give this man a race/time trial. He could maybe scare the 7:40s. Heck, have any of the top 3 pace him as part of a workout.

False. His 3k pb is 7:50, ran it earlier this year in a TT during Covid lockdown.

Timetocomeback wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Tobin's PBs of 3:41.87/3:57.00/7:59/13:56.

Give this man a race/time trial. He could maybe scare the 7:40s. Heck, have any of the top 3 pace him as part of a workout.

False. His 3k pb is 7:50, ran it earlier this year in a TT during Covid lockdown.

To be clear, I meant the 3k PB was incorrect. Definitely agree, give him a race!

Timetocomeback wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Tobin's PBs of 3:41.87/3:57.00/7:59/13:56.

Give this man a race/time trial. He could maybe scare the 7:40s. Heck, have any of the top 3 pace him as part of a workout.

False. His 3k pb is 7:50, ran it earlier this year in a TT during Covid lockdown.

Ah just going off his official PBs on his World Athletics page. Good catch.

already streaming info wrote:

Uh oh. Announcer referred to the "big figure" of Ramsden. Mary Cain is gonna be pissed!

It's just double standards innit...

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

rojo wrote:

This might be one of the worst takes I've ever seen. The 5k/10k outkicked the 1500/5000 guy in a 3k while coming from behing and you now say you think the 1500/5k guy will beat him if they race at 5k?

Yeah the only way I could see this take working is if Jakob was a big turn-of-speed finisher. He's just not. It's hard to see him coming out on top against Kiplimo who has shown he can switch gears the last 200 and is capable of huge times at 5,000/10,000

Well. The 20 all time best 3000 meter runners. Two has not run under 13.00 at 5 K. Jakob I and Morcelli. 5 of them sub 3.30. This time Kiplimo. How knows next time on 5K?

As if Kiplimo's win was in doubt. Well, unless you're one of those people who think Ingebritsen is the best thing to happen to distance running (he's not even the best in his specialist distance).

No it’s not at all surprising for a guy who ran 3:28 this year and 13:02 last year (while clearly being in better shape this year). Ryan Hill illustrates that. Ryan was nowhere near a 3:28 guy and never anywhere near Jakob’s current 5000m fitness, whatever you want to argue that it is.

Even McSweyn is more surprising.

And the pacing is relevant because Ryan’s race did not have as favorable of a setup. There were like 20 people in it to have to negotiate and jostle with, resulting in slower splits.

You are overrating a 7:27 for a 3:28/12:5x guy.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

1) perfectly paced is irrelevant because I'm pretty sure the races where Hill, Kennedy, Mark Carroll, Dieter Baumann etc - who all came close to the 7.30.00 (within a second) were also in perfectly paced races (as none of them finished better than 4th in their races)

2) Jakob is 20. Hill was 26, Bob 27, Mark 27 and Dieter 33. As you go up distances the strength that comes naturally with age is so important at especially events over the mile.

3) Point remains and it's indisputable - despite many good/great white/Caucasian (however you want to say it) athletes trying to run under this barrier, only one in history had been able to up until today.

So given that fact and the fact he's 20 - it is in the least, a little surprising.

Well, you're basically saying it's surprising because he's white and young. That would be really the only reason it could be surprising. If an African athlete ran 3:28 one year and had a 13:02 from the year before in not super-fast races, we would expect a sub-7:30 in a well-paced race. Jakob's credentials are already greater than any of the guys you mention besides Dieter in terms of his competitiveness on the world stage and his times. He is special, so it is not that surprising when he runs special times regardless of being a white guy. If he runs a 12:50-55 this year or next it will be special, but not surprising to me.

Also, just noting that Galen Rupp ran a 7:30.16 FTW indoors. Not as good as Stewart today and definitely not up to Mottram's 8:03.5, but not far off either.

Well put.

barney23 wrote:

As if Kiplimo's win was in doubt. Well, unless you're one of those people who think Ingebritsen is the best thing to happen to distance running (he's not even the best in his specialist distance).

Agree. Kiplimos win was not in doubt. Never the less, some reasons why Ingebrigtsen, not Ingebritsen, is a poster boy: He is the all time fastes of non-african decent on both 1500 and now 3000. And probably on 5000 next year. It has to do with the african dominance, especially in long distance running. And the broad public in both Europe and USA at least think that is interesting. Like it or not. That's how it works.

big 3000 wrote:

Don't think it's crazy at all to beat Jakob by a hair in the 3000...by one of the fastest 5000 runners of all time. Jakob's season is on the down swing, while Jacob is still coming off that hot run recently.

What we've seen so far, I don't think anyone is beating Jakob by over 5 sec in the 5000. Jacob may be 1-2 seconds better.

I’m pretty sure Cheptegei could put a 5 second gap on him. I love Jakob, but he’s not in 12:40 shape

Kiplimo's win was not in doubt because, as I've discussed with you before, Jakob ain't got the GRIT.

You could see him trying to dig deeper and hold Kiplimo off, but Kiplimo won that mining contest. Jakob was content to give 100% and knuckle under as Kiplimo passed him. It's ok if you gave your best, right? 2nd place ain't so bad.

That's why he always comes in 2nd.

KaareV wrote:

barney23 wrote:

As if Kiplimo's win was in doubt. Well, unless you're one of those people who think Ingebritsen is the best thing to happen to distance running (he's not even the best in his specialist distance).

Agree. Kiplimos win was not in doubt. Never the less, some reasons why Ingebrigtsen, not Ingebritsen, is a poster boy: He is the all time fastes of non-african decent on both 1500 and now 3000. And probably on 5000 next year. It has to do with the african dominance, especially in long distance running. And the broad public in both Europe and USA at least think that is interesting. Like it or not. That's how it works.

Oh, I know how it works. I follow the English Premier League and I've seen how, over the past 20 years, the press and commentators always hype an exciting local prospect so much you'd think they were the next Pele or Maradona or Beckenbauer. Ingebrigtsen is a good runner but many times, especially on these boards, the hype goes overboard and is unrealistic. His being The Great White Hope, that's very obvious -- it just won't trump the fact that there are still good Africans who'll almost always come ahead of him if they're in the same race.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Kiplimo's win was not in doubt because, as I've discussed with you before, Jakob ain't got the GRIT.

You could see him trying to dig deeper and hold Kiplimo off, but Kiplimo won that mining contest. Jakob was content to give 100% and knuckle under as Kiplimo passed him. It's ok if you gave your best, right? 2nd place ain't so bad.

That's why he always comes in 2nd.

Yes. But again. This is an occular "evidence". You ought to develope your argument. But surely, you have the GRIT to write what you just did. There is no way we can decide on this. I have not written that he has the grit, just wondering how do you know.

Recap is now up.

rojo wrote:

lt man wrote:

Kiplimo won but I'm still more impressed with Jakob. For him to race so much this year, focusing on the 1500, then still fast enough to run 7:27 is impressive. You can tell the race felt just a little long to him compared to what he's been running.

I still give Jakob the edge in a 5k next year in the Olympics against Kiplimo. Jakob will probably run the 1500 though.

This might be one of the worst takes I've ever seen. The 5k/10k outkicked the 1500/5000 guy in a 3k while coming from behing and you now say you think the 1500/5k guy will beat him if they race at 5k?

You're an idiot. Jakob ran 13:02 last year and this year has been training specifically for the 1500 this year. This 3k was the longest race he did all year. It was also his 3rd race in 2 weeks. Kiplimo has been preparing for the 5k/3k all year.

Kiplimo peaked for this and Ostrava (September 8th). Jakob peaked for Monaco more than a month ago on August 14th.

albanese wrote:

rojo wrote:

This might be one of the worst takes I've ever seen. The 5k/10k outkicked the 1500/5000 guy in a 3k while coming from behing and you now say you think the 1500/5k guy will beat him if they race at 5k?

You're an idiot. Jakob ran 13:02 last year and this year has been training specifically for the 1500 this year. This 3k was the longest race he did all year. It was also his 3rd race in 2 weeks. Kiplimo has been preparing for the 5k/3k all year.

Kiplimo peaked for this and Ostrava (September 8th). Jakob peaked for Monaco more than a month ago on August 14th.

Jakob ran a 5K NR this year. Your statement is false.