Masters star Kevin Castille - whom many LRCers thought was on drugs - is banned for testing positive for a steroid

Masters doping is rampant in all events. The ego and thus the desire to cheat is still there. It’s easier to spot the clean 100 and 200 athlete at masters events I’ve been witness to.

Agree with that.

I met Kevin a few times back in 2013. He was supposed to be taking over a coaching job that I was leaving and there was some overlap where he he had been hired for the following XC season, but I was still there for the spring track season. I was on the committee that hired him and we did a firstaid/CPR class together with all the other coaches at the school. He never actually had any interaction with the team except for competing as an open athlete at one of our meets (he won a track 5,000 m in 14:40-something) and me telling the team that was thier next coach.

He never actually coached at the school though because a few weeks before the start of the pre-season he left for Louisiana and put the school in a bit of a bind - I had already left the school and was at another job and the lone assistant was only one year out of college, at least she got the opportuity to be a head coach for awhile.

The point of the story is that I lost a lot of respect for him in leaving as he did with little /no warning and that at the very least it showed he was not a man of his word and was not to be trusted. I have no evidence one way or another aout any PEDs, but once someone shows you they can't be trusted you should believe them.

Bummer...

I hope he reaches out for some help and surrounds himself with good friends and family for awhile. I never met him but always wanted to meet him. If anyone on the boards is his real friend be sure to reach out and give him something positive to grab hold of.....I can’t imagine the mental roller coaster he is riding right now.

Agree

local masters wrote:

Masters doping is rampant in all events. The ego and thus the desire to cheat is still there. It’s easier to spot the clean 100 and 200 athlete at masters events I’ve been witness to.

Pathetic, shameful behavior for "mature" adults.

I’m honestly more offended by your reading comprehension than anything else.

Well have fun at "camp" then.

can't stop real runners wrote:

I don't care what your parents do(see user name). Apologies do work. If only whites would take this advice.

Thank you so much for randomly bringing in race to this discussion.

jerrry wrote:

my problem with the way our system works is - with him having tested positive, a 4 year ban is a punishment of the future but does not thing about the past.

1) shouldn't athletes who test positive have to pay back the ill gotten goods (or at least the USATF levy some kind of fine in proportion to their gain

2) shouldn't athlete records be erased (or at least put a big fat asterisk next to the mart indicating they were later caught doping)

when are we going to make the punishment such that the crime becomes not worth it.

There should be legislation clearly criminalizing doping if you have won prize money. To be reinstated you should serve time and pay all the people you screwed over, with interest.

At the Olympic/WC level, there should be a new medal ceremony reflective of the cheating at the next championship, where fourth place, or even 5th/6th gets their podium experience. They should also hang the flag(s) of the cheater(s) upside down during the ceremony.

Smoove wrote:

MehConfused wrote:

Cost you money or podium finishes?????? What????????

Cost me money at Gate River Run where I got 3rd place masters Money instead of 2nd place masters, and at Houston where I got bumped out of masters money by one place with a 4th place finish.

Sorry, I didn't know who you are Smoove. Yes, you definitely got cheated out of money. I agree with the poster on page 6, he should have to give back what he unfairly took...simple as that.

If you cheated to get it, then you didn't earn it on an even playing field with those you were running against.

I sincerely hope he doesn't do anything like that Meza guy did. Come clean, pay back what you took and move on, life is too short. Doing that shows that you are human and did the right thing.

To the poster who brought race into this thread, wow...you've got nothing intelligent to offer so your fallback is race, not his actions? Shame upon you, shame upon you.

"Criminalize doping?" Lol. "Hang the flag(s) of the cheater(s) upside down?" Lol. Not in our wildest dreams - instead the IOC rewards dopers with upgrades in medals!

How about a lifetime ban for the first offense? How about having to payback and return all earnings, prize money, titles, medals, etc?

It's not going to happen in our lifetime. So, instead Castille gets a slap on the wrist with a ridiculous 4-yr ban and gets to keep all the prize money, medals, titles, etc., from the races. I'd say he gets the last laugh.

Doping is criminal in some countries and it has nothing to do with the IOC, not like our legislative bodies are any more effective.

The point is just that making it criminal has got nothing to do with IOC/USATF/IAAF/WADA/USADA.

It would be interesting if even a few states made it criminal. You might notice a pattern of dopers not competing in those states.

Some U.S. states make 1st offense D.U.I. a gross misdemeanor, other U.S. states make 1st offense D.U.I. a misdemeanor. Have you wondered why no U.S. states make 1st offense D.U.I. a felony?

In U.S., app. 95% of individuals criminally charged in county or state court plead guilty to something, only app. 5% in county or state court take a case to trial. In U.S., app. 99% of individuals criminally charged in federal court plead guilty to something, only about 1% in federal court take a case to trial. If everyone positive of P.E.D. use were a subject of death penalty, lifetime ban, everyone would take every P.E.D. case to trial.

If everyone criminally charged with D.U.I. faced a felony, 1st offense, nearly every D.U.I. case 1st offense would head to jury trial. Prison Industrial Complex needs over 90% criminally charged with D.U.I. to roll over and plead guilty. Athletic governing organizations need athletes to roll over and take their punishment for testing positive instead of demanding a jury trial.

There is a variety of theories of criminal liability that could be applied to such situations, eg theft by swindle—but prosecutors have other fish to fry. Someone like the legal entity under which a race is conducted would have to make the criminal complaint, and encourage police and prosecutors to pursue the matter.

djfjdjdj wrote:

Doping is criminal in some countries and it has nothing to do with the IOC, not like our legislative bodies are any more effective.

The point is just that making it criminal has got nothing to do with IOC/USATF/IAAF/WADA/USADA.

Hypothetically correct, but then we have the IAAF with Lord Conflict-of-Interest openly lobbying against criminalization.

Those countries where it is criminal have already successfully used the police power to crack doping rings, see e.g. Operation Aderlass and Epo-Aden. No surprise then that Coe is against that!

In the long run, we will get more and more of an advantage, the more countries criminalize doping (while we won't).

djfjdjdj wrote:

It would be interesting if even a few states made it criminal. You might notice a pattern of dopers not competing in those states.

Yes indeed - see related incidents from certain border-crossings during the Tour de France!

If you're running low 14 and you weren't a 13 minute guy, you would be reasonably questioned. But if you never did much and you're running faster on much more mileage, then you have every chance to beat your old pr's even well into your 40s. I didn't know squat about training when I was young, was injured literally every week or two in high school, ran low mileage with few workouts, and only got in a couple years of running in college, with a string of pr's my sophomore year after a once in a lifetime string of 10 healthy weeks averaging 60 mpw, but with hardly any workouts because it was winter training. When I broke all those pr's in my late 30s, I was running 80-100 mpw with big workouts often with college guys and good club runners. When I beat my marathon pr from those years, six years later, I was running over 110 mpw with the workouts and honestly, there was a time in between where I ran with a 4 flat guy and was in even better shape but didn't get in a healthy race. Age is overrated as a factor.

Smoove wrote:

Setting open PRs in your 40S is rightfully going to make people ask questions.

I am one of those “fresh body” guys. Didn’t run in high school, walked on in college, left the scene for the most part until just before 40.

I was able to come back and have a great masters career, but if you look at my best times In my primary race (5k), I was a minute slower in my 40s than in my early 20s. Those times lined up very well from an age grading perspective though.

So while open PRs or huge jumps in age grades performance for younger masters athletes aren’t absolute evidence of cheating, they should certainly make people take a closer look at the athlete.

casual obsever wrote:

djfjdjdj wrote:

Doping is criminal in some countries and it has nothing to do with the IOC, not like our legislative bodies are any more effective.

The point is just that making it criminal has got nothing to do with IOC/USATF/IAAF/WADA/USADA.

Hypothetically correct, but then we have the IAAF with Lord Conflict-of-Interest openly lobbying against criminalization.

Those countries where it is criminal have already successfully used the police power to crack doping rings, see e.g. Operation Aderlass and Epo-Aden. No surprise then that Coe is against that!

In the long run, we will get more and more of an advantage, the more countries criminalize doping (while we won't).

+1

Good points.