My goal of sub 4:00 1500-I will not stop until I reach my goal.

Good to see you going for it and still running close to your pr. next month you should be able to hold that pace. I'm psyched to see you running a 5k. I think you're going to do well, based on that 5:00, 5:00,5:17 workout you did a while back. definitely a pr, maybe sub-16.

boingo, good results on a windy day. the northeast sucks for outdoor track in January--usually windy, cold, hard to get warmed up. I know nothing, as my results show. But I still think that you should get the tempos down below 5:50 pace.

I did 12.5 at 6:55 yesterday (Albuquerque). I felt in a rut, maybe with all the mileage, until mile 8. then I passed a 29 10k Kenyan cooling down who asked me what I was running and encouraged me to keep at it ('keep working, it takes time') (would you ever hear that from an elite American? look at the nastiness on this board.). So, of course, that mile became a 6:30 including the jog while talking to him, and I finished in 6:40/6:39/5:52.

Tuesday: 8x800m (1 minute rest) with UNM's track team. 2:36/2:34/2:38/2:38/2:42/2:40/2:42/2:44. then 200m-33.1 after a 2 minute rest. first time I can remember going beyond five 8's in a workout and that was the shortest rest I've done 8's in. Added the 200m at the end for speed work. 7.5M and will add another 5 later.

one guy I've been running with in workouts ran 9:06 3k a few weeks ago--hopefully I am not too far away from a good drop.

Is the dream over?

EDDY LEE? EDDY LEE?

Where are you Eddy Lee? You swore to me that you would NEVER give up. What happened? Are you out there Eddy Lee?

My goodness Eddy Lee, either shit or get off the pot.

So we are being made to run interval workouts every day and the ones that survive will become stronger. By the way we don't have indoor track, only outdoor. Past week and all are supposed to be hard days:

Monday - 5x1 mile

Tuesday - 30x200

Wednesday - 10x1k

Thursday - 12x400

Friday - 5 mile tempo

Saturday - 25x200, 10x400

Sunday - off

What do you think? I have tried speaking out and saying it is too many hard days but they refuse to listen.. I don't know what to do...

what is this bizarre predilection for recycling posts from this very thread?

Well, it wasn't the winter I had envisioned. I ran 4:28 in my mile race. It was into a stiff headwind and the other fast guys that I was hoping would show up ended up bailing, so I had to lead wire to wire and face the brunt of the wind. Shortly thereafter (a week?) I slipped on some ice during a fartlek and hurt my knee. I was on an elliptical for a week and a half and now I'm back. A few days ago I did 400m, 600m, 400m, 300m with rest of 5 min, 5, 4. I think I hit 56, 1:28, 59, 45. Definitely lost a few steps, but it is only January.

Hope everyone out there is staying healthy during this brutal weather. Thanks for wondering about me.

I don't see how you can miss mid-3:50s this year with health. You are getting very comfortable with sub-60s. I've been running about 90 mpw. I was able to get the legs moving a bit over XMas break away from VT but back here cannot get much faster stuff on the snow and ice. I was running 6:30s for 12-13 when the snow was the right consistency, not recently. The regular indoor track is usually closed because of baseball or softball teams using the infield and speedwork isn't feasible above on the jogging track with so many plodders. I did 3x200 (100j), 2x1k(400j), 2x600(400j), 2x300(100j). However, it was a joke. 2 of the 200s were interrupted by baseball players (39,38,34), I managed to finish the first 1k (3:11) before the softball team asked me to leave, and I weaved around and sometimes jogged behind waves of plodders upstairs, having to guess at the distance (182.87m inside lane and who knows what the 2nd and 3rd lane distances were). Hurts my foot to run hard on the track. I finished in 3:19,1:53,1:52,52,52,54. A few miles on treadmill the past couple days suggest I'm not in terrible shape, as 5:30 pace wasn't that hard (161 hr) and 6:30 pace was at 143 hr. I'm looking forward to serious workouts in about 3 months when the roads and outdoor track are dry.

coldRunning, my view is that you do your 'workouts' hard and take the next day easy if it helps. now, as sair said, the faster you get, the harder 10k pace becomes in workouts, because you can sustain your pace for much longer. I find that 3k-5k GOAL pace is nearly always quite manageable for me on track work, but there is a gap from the intervals to the actual 3k-5k races, and even more of a gap to 10k. but as you get in better shape, and figure out the workouts that will allow you to sustain that pace for longer (longer intervals, tempos, long runs, fairly hard 12-14 milers), there should be a closer relation between the intervals and the races.

very nice job, ron. you are progressing well, and sub-5 mile is very much within range ten days from the time of that tempo (my guess is that the tempo benefit, which takes ten days or so, will allow you to sustain 74's). 19:55 solo tempo 5k is worth sub-19 in a track race, I would think.

boingo, good to see that you're getting in some aerobic work and giving yourself a chance to heal. the hip stuff can be aided by the stretch where you sit down, one leg out, the other knee pulled across the leg and up near the opposite hip, foot down, and you turn the opposite way. No doubt you do that one already. Also, standing, bend to the left over the hip and hold, and then to the right over the hip and hold--seems to help me. Then maybe the weight machines where you push your knees apart or in, would help.

sair, I wouldn't worry about running grass 1k's barefoot in a 'slow' time. you're doing great and we expect a lot from you when you race. as for the speed, I wouldn't shift to middle distance training, but incorporate more of the pure speed stuff (plyos, drills, strides, accelerations, 200 repeats) into your current training. It seems to me that you would go sub-4.

to the poster who thought I was overtraining for a 1500m, I agree. My 'focus' is just to run pr's at every distance this year. I think that I can get a 1500/mile pr next time out, if healthy, as the speed has improved. But to maximize my 1500m would clearly take a mileage drop. On the other hand, I seem to thrive off of high mileage, and every one of my pr's since sophomore year of college have been on close to my highest lifetime mileage to that point. Just recently, I was stagnating, pushed the mileage back up to 100 for a week, combined this with my fastest workouts, and ran a 58 second 5M pr.

Jonesy... yes there's some bozo recycling posts. Must be getting a rise out of it.

Thanks for the update. You're in pretty good shape to run on the treadmill at those paces with that low of heart rate.

The season starts for me tomorrow. I'll be running my first indoor mile in years. Shooting to run around 4:50. But you never know as it has been awhile. The track is 200m. Stay tuned.

I'm not going to say I can't run mid 3:50s this year, but I think the workouts are making me look a little more fit than I am because I am used to doing workouts with shorter rest and doing much more weekly mileage (I'm only around 50 right now). Today was 1200m, 5 min rest, 800m, 5 min, 400m, 2 min, 200m. I did it solo because most of the guys are racing today. 3:20, 2:08, 60, 29. It was a ball buster, and my hamstrings were really tight/sore from Wednesdays workout.

Jonesy those heart rates at that pace are really impressive. You have a really good base and once you start doing some speed work you will see huge improvements.

Good luck in your mile Ron.

great 3k boingo! especially considering that you had the flu. it is early yet so you have time to make some huge improvements this year.

i'd be anxious to hear if those orthotics are working well for you sair. i'm one of those freaks who trains in flats so i'm always curious to hear what others wear when they train.

All hands on deck for this one please:

Mileage was 25-35ish before my 20:27 5K

Mileage now: 38, 44, 48, 40, 31, 19 (hate the holidays), 42, 43, going to be over 45 this week. At that 20:27 point, any runs in the 7:30-7:45 pace range were really hard for 4 miles, couldn't hold on for 5 miles. Now, all of my 8 mile runs are in that range, every run is under 8 minute pace, but I haven't done any of the 4x1000 workouts or any speed whatsoever that I did this summer. I did a 6:30 mile on the track after a 4 miler on the road and while I felt strong throughout it, that pace felt foreign to my legs and intense for lack of a better word.

I think, fitness wise, I can break 20 tomorrow if I wanted to, but I'd like for that pace to feel a little more comfortable in the legs. Any thoughts?

Good times for a change

See the luck I've had

Could make a good man turn bad

So please, please, please

Let me, let me, let me

Let me get what I want

This time

Haven't had a dream in a long time

See the life I've had

Could make a good man bad

So for once in my life

Let me break 4:00 for the 1500 meters

Lord knows it would be the first time

Lord knows it would be the first time

I haven't specifically quizzed my coach on it, but it looks like we've been doing a few weeks of hard, fast intervals to get legs used to quicker paces.

sample workouts:

11x200 - split into 5, 3, 2, 1 - 60 seconds rest, start at 30's and worked down for each new set

3x200, 2x300, 500, 2x300, 3x200, 400

90 rest and 10 minutes before the 400 - mostly 31s, 46-48s, 1:19 for the 500, and 59 for the 400.

3x200, 2x300, 3x200 - 40 seconds between 200's, 60 between the 300's, 4 minutes in between sets.

30, 30, 29, 43, 44, 28, 28, 28

2x200 with 30 rest, 4 mins, 200, 4 mins, 200

28, 28, 25, 25

Those 25's were not all out - so I have a feeling all the stridework and lifting I've been doing has been helping. I couldn't break 26 fresh last year.

I'm doing an 800 and on a 4x4 at a meet tomorrow...fairly sure I've got some PRs that will be revised.

great workouts, boingo, solojoe. what kind of lifting are you doing, boingo? I started doing a few things this week and started situps (really just the initial movement and down, 25/10 the first day, 35/25 the second day). tell me that lifting and core will make me faster and I'll keep doing it. good luck in your races this weekend!

I'm also curious about people's opinions on core/lifting.

As far as I'm concerned, the jury's still out. Some people are fanatic about a lot of core/weights, others believe it's relatively unimportant, and only worth looking at if you have time left over after your miles.

I go through phases where I do a lot, but part of that is vanity and the fact that I like the variety in training, and the feeling of being strong. The miles always take precedence though. I don't know if it makes a big difference to my running, but then again I'm young, male and quite naturally strong. The older runners I know say that natural core strength, and general muscular strength, decreases as you get older, and that it's more important to do this work at 40+ than it is for the younger runner, particularly from an injury prevention point of view.

My own recommendations would be to try including a bit of core work in a time-efficient manner. I finish most runs with a set of chin-ups/push-ups (along with my stretching). With proper form, these body weight exercises are great for developing upper body strength, as well as touching on the core - and they add ~3mins to my day's workout. If you're running a lot, you don't need to worry about bulking up - you may even lose a little weight. I also have a few exercises involving hanging off the chinup bar and lifting the legs/lower body - hard to describe but you've prob seen them.

Sit ups are ok, but personally I like exercises that work more the core muscles and the lower stomach muscles - I do planks and a variety of exercises involving lying on my back and lifting the legs in different ways - I feel that these have more of a running-specific benefit. Again, I'm not going to embarrass myself by trying to provide a description, but there are some good descriptions on these boards if you search.

I keep it short, and tough - currently I do a ~12 min set of ~4 exercises (which I vary) with 30-60sec breaks in which I do my normal post-run stretching, right after I finish my run (I find them especially effective when I'm warmed up and a little tired), maybe twice a week. I guess I'm trying to emphasis that you don't have to be slave to the 'core' god and spend hours at it to get benefit - god knows most of us don't have 3+hours a day to be exercising!

Eddy Lee?!?!?

Eddy Lee, are you out there brother?

Please tell me you're really close to blasting a sub 4 1500 meters. Come on, you can do it. Use drugs if you have to. Do whatever it takes. It's all up to you now Eddy Lee.

wow this is a good thread and i just looked at this page- i should have been looking at it way more often it looked too long lol. Keep up the good work everyone ill look at this for some motivation

hannsen wrote:

wow this is a good thread and i just looked at this page- i should have been looking at it way more often it looked too long lol. Keep up the good work everyone ill look at this for some motivation

Here's a great big honking back slap to the lucky letsrunner who just posted post number 900!